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Transcript · SmartLess

Michael Douglas | SmartLess

1:01:10English, auto-generated captions11,705 words · 47 min read
In short · Summary by AI

In this SmartLess episode, Michael Douglas joins Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Will Arnett to discuss his career, from growing up as the son of Kirk Douglas in New York and Los Angeles through his stage training, Streets of San Francisco, and producing One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. The hosts also promote their Hollywood Bowl show on October 17th. The conclusion is that Douglas's career was built on recognizing good material and staying willing to take on new challenges.

Transcript

Mail and Show Promotion

0:05Okay, guys. I'm just uh just walked to my [music] mailbox. I'm going through my mail. Let's see what I got here. I got a jury notice. Uh probably toss that. I have a uh [music] sweep stakes. Um I should probably enter that. I have a utility bill that's going to be turned off. [music] Oh, my lights going to be turned off.
0:20Okay, I should probably I'll probably toss that. And um Oh, what's this? Let me open this really quick. >> [music] >> It's an all new smartless right now. >> Smartless. [music] Smart.
0:43Smart less. >> Guys, guess what's coming up in a couple days? >> Yeah, I know. We got to mention the Hollywood Bowl. We're going to be at the Hollywood Bowl October 17th. >> And not just there, like not hanging out, actually doing a show at that. >> We're going to be on the stage. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And if you don't have tickets yet, you you go to smartlist.com/live.
1:05Is that right? >> Wait, what's it? What is it? >> smartlist.com/live. >> Oh my gosh, that's pretty easy. And And for that, they're going to they're going to get a double guest. Is that right? >> Yeah. >> Two guests. >> Yeah. And we got some fun we got some fun surprises. >> Oh yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah, we got some fun surprises.
1:21All for the price of one ticket. Yeah. All for the price. >> And a nice beautiful October October 17th. Correct. Right. A fall night out there under the stars. >> It's going to be gorgeous. And And you Yeah. You You buy a ticket and you can't you can't put a price tag on a smile. >> What a great sell.
1:37[laughter] You know, >> will you're the best. >> Anyway, it's going to be a great night. Hopefully as great as this next guest coming up. Guys, let's get to the episode. Guys, [snorts] I was racing out of the house to come be here on time. >> Yeah. >> And um >> out of the house. >> Yeah. He had to go across the compound.
1:59>> Oh. >> Into a separate structure. >> Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um >> golf cart. It's a half hour golf cart drive. Tell the listener. >> Mhm. >> Wait, guys. Everybody just >> Oh, I thought Well, you can keep chewing. Well, just everyone else just just listen. [laughter] God, I know it's an audio show. >> Yeah.

Injured Bird and Opening Banter

2:22>> Um anyway, um and there in front of the window by the front door lying on the ground is a small bird >> that had that had hit the window, I guess, earlier and was not yet dead, but deeply wounded, hurt. And I and I'm racing to you guys. I didn't have chance to >> stop and help. I had to call back into the house and Amanda, I think I hope is is tending to the young bird.
2:47But >> guys, I'm not I'm not good about seeing this animal. >> This is the This is the second time in 5 days that there's been a dead bird that a bird that was injured. Remember on Sunday, Mate came across an injured bird. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's going on? >> What if that bird tonight was sitting at the dinner table just all wrapped in bandages and it's like, "Hey, I'm just going to be spending some time in your house from now >> and now it can speak."
3:13>> Yeah. Boy, that would be fantastic. Sean, >> I mean, yeah, I'll never forget. Right. M Michigan frog. Isn't that the name of the frog? >> Yeah. Michigan J Frog. Michigan. Hello. [laughter] Hello. >> What was the lesson of that particular cartoon episode? >> Um, I don't know. But every time, yeah, he said it was somebody who he was like, "Oh my god, you got to hear my It's like saying, "I have a friend who's really funny.
3:34Watch." And then they don't say anything funny. I have a frog that can sing. Watch. And the frog doesn't sing around anybody else. And then he rents out Carnegie Hall and the frog just goes ribbit. >> What? Remember that? >> And then and then he got his own network, the WB. The WB. Yeah. >> Then he got then he got the W the WWB.
3:52Really? >> Yeah. I remember that show. >> Um >> so uh how's everybody this morning? >> Good. Scotty's birthday's coming up. I'm going to take him to the Lucas Museum. >> Boy, speaking of Scotty, that's Scotty. You played us that music that he wrote for for uh for the for the college there. I mean, it's just like uh that was stunning.
4:10Stunning. Stunning stuff. Like it's like it's like John Williams. >> I said I thought it was John I thought it was when I walked in you guys were playing it and I thought it was John Williams. >> He recorded it with the John Williams orchestra basically. >> Yeah. Like a lot of people who play it on a lot of for John Williams.
4:23>> It's a compliment. I mean it's really >> Yeah, it's great. It'll come out. Thanks for saying that. He It'll come out like in a month or so. Like he'll post it and all that stuff. >> But um >> So you guys you're taking him to the Lucas >> Lucas Museum. Yeah. Didn't just open I just read an article about that this morning.
4:36Yeah. >> Yeah. More banana. >> So [laughter] >> yeah. Yeah. You just gave me [ __ ] and then you you fill your mouth and then start talking. >> Yeah. >> No, do it. Do the do the banana sound. Do it. >> No, I can't. [laughter] >> Respectable guest. >> No, you know you're doing it. No, you're doing it.
4:51Don't worry. >> Um, but so this episode is We're in October. >> This episode is brought to you by October >> and uh and the Lucas Museum opened a couple of weeks ago. >> It opened on his birthday. >> Yeah. And I'm very excited to go see that. >> Yeah. >> So, you're you're going you're going to the opening on his birthday?
5:12>> We can't. We're going to be in London, but we're going to come back after that. >> But what are you going to do with your pocket protector? [laughter] >> Yeah. What kind of outfit will you guys be wearing when you go to the Lucas Museum? >> Full like cape. >> Tattoo. [laughter] >> Some sort of a loose flowing.
5:30>> Oh, he's got the tattoo hat on. Oh my goodness. >> Yeah. Um, I mean, we're I'm so super super excited. And yeah, the other, >> you know, I hear there's not a lot of Star Wars stuff in there. >> No. Uhuh. It'll be You'll be hardressed to find something in there. [laughter] >> No. No. True. >> I think JB was being serious.
5:45I'm being serious. >> No, I just No, I just saw I just saw a video of it. Um, somebody took a video who's already in it. And there's tons of Star Of course, there's tons of Star Wars stuff in. >> All right. I just The article I read, >> Jason, you just you just caused a panic in the [laughter] nerd community.
5:59>> I was I was like, "What? Why? Why?" Or maybe maybe what they said was calling my congressman. >> Not as not as much as you would think. Um, it is much more about the >> No, I you're making all the >> was reading in the New York Times this morning. >> Oh, really? Okay. >> Another bite for sure. Sorry, Jason.
6:14Go ahead. >> Another bite of that. [laughter] >> The karma is so instant. It's [ __ ] bananas. >> And then [laughter] And then I'm going to move into this. My Aloha bar. >> Aloha bar. Those bars are great. They're just filled with stuff you don't know. >> Yeah. No, there's plenty. >> Why not just eat whole food?
6:31>> They describe it all in the back. These Aloha bars, everybody is the best. >> Those are your snacks. You know what I had for a snack before bed last night? And it's >> Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. Let me guess. >> Uh dumplings. A gallon of caramel corn. >> No. >> Um uh molasses. >> No.
6:49>> Hot wings. >> A can of sweet peas with butter. >> What? >> I just entire can of peas. >> Wait. Wait. What are sweet peas? >> Sweet peas. Like a can can >> something I call [clears throat] somebody. >> Canned peas. Are [gasps] are you are you were you did you go into your doomsday bunker and just grab an extra can?
7:06[laughter] >> What happened? Did you get some tang? Did you make a a big jug of tang while you were down there? >> Yeah. By the way, that sounds good to wash it down. >> Wait, I don't understand. Where did you get a can of peas from? >> I I stock my whole pantry with peas cuz I like it as a snack. I just eat a whole can.
7:23>> True. Truly. Uh like loose peas. >> Loose peas >> into into a pot. Now, do you How How are we doing it? >> Yeah. I put it on the stove and in a pot. Takes like 2 minutes to keep warm with water and then you strain it and you put butter on it and then you eat it. I ate the whole thing. So So you just love the taste of pizza.
7:40>> By the way, by the way, Sean, again, again, we It's not like we don't believe that you ate the whole thing. That's not the issue. [laughter] >> The issue is >> Or the butter or the butter. The thing the issue is the thing itself. >> Yeah. Cheese is something that's just uh it's just always kind of there like parsley on a on a plate and you don't pay.
7:58>> Brought to you by your friends at Del Monte. Don't really pay it much money. I think that was them. >> You made a whole meal out of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um >> Yeah. I Cuz they're sweet. I don't know. It's like a It's like a sweet snack. >> Sure. Yeah. >> I love Don't you like pea soup? >> I do.

Introducing Michael Douglas

8:14>> Yeah. >> This is a different >> soup. [laughter] Yeah. >> These are solids. Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. Well, um >> if our guest is still up, >> um [laughter] >> we're going to we're going to fire up a conversation with him. Jamie, you sure you don't want sh you you don't want to just get rid of that aloha?
8:33>> I'll unwrap the aloha bar. No, I won't. All right. Now, fellas, >> yes. >> I'm not sure how to properly introduce this guest this morning. To go through his credits >> now. >> Would take an hour >> to mention his nominations and awards would take another. He's been a steady and consistent presence in our business that is anything but steady and consistent.
8:52For over 60 years, he has managed to act and produce some of the best, most entertaining, most respected, best remembered projects the business has turned out. But he's also worked at a gas station where he won he won mobile man of the year. No, of the month. >> I hear Do you hear a bird? I think the bird's okay.
9:09[laughter] >> The bird's alive. Um, he also did a full year of college at UCSB. Okay. A full single year. Um, he was almost kidnapped at age eight and he's beaten cancer. He's got a new book coming out, covers it all in fine detail, but he's stopping by here today to give us a few bits and pieces. It's a great honor to have him here.
9:28Please welcome the man behind The China Syndrome, Wall Street, Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Romancing the Stone, Falling Down, The War of Roses. >> Michael Douglas. What? >> Many great films, folks. Michael Douglas. >> Oh, Michael Douglas. Michael, nice to see you, too.
9:48>> Is it legend day on smart? No man know what a tro cup. >> I mean can I I want to call you sir. Can I call you Michael? >> Call me Mikey. You can call me >> Mikey. I'll you'll never be Mikey. >> Mike anything you want to chase. >> You know going through your your stuff doing the the the the modicum of research we do here.
10:09Um I just I'm just knocked out uh sir. um the the amount of of highest quality work possible that you've done with your time uh as well as just commercial success as well and the producing and then just the life you've lived when you're off the set. I just I don't know how you've packed it all in. So, thank God you've written a book about it.
10:34Uh so happy you're here to share. >> What's the name of the book of it? >> One hell of a ride. >> Okay. Perfect [laughter] title. >> That's great. Perfect title. >> That's great. Um well um I I mean can can can we start near the beginning? I mean I I just I I would love to know um you know obviously you your father had a had a had a head start with things um and and and showing you what this business uh is is about and what it could be.

Childhood Between Coasts

11:02How how early on did you think that you might want to do that as as well? >> Not too early. Um I think no I think probably being the the son of uh my mother was an actress too. >> Yeah. and and so I was aware of the business but I know you guys would find this hard to believe but we are a fairly self-involved group [laughter] and uh >> we like we like us >> it is they talk about the order of uh you know God our country uh family and then career but >> I think for us in our business career
11:42kind of comes first so um I my folks got divorced um at a very young age when I was like about five. >> Um, they just gone out to California. My father just started getting a movie career >> and u >> he he probably kind of acted like a guy who never seen a girl before. So he uh didn't take long before my mom to say, "H, no, I don't think this is >> I'll stay in New York."
12:09Yeah. >> So, let's go back to New York, kids. >> Yeah. >> So, I I basically grew up as a uh as a New Yorker. >> Yeah. Um, as part of as being part of the royal family, we had a small apartment on the west side facing the alley. It was on Central Park West to face the alley. This was 19 1948 49. >> Yeah.
12:31Central Park West facing west is not great. >> No, [laughter] not funny. >> And uh and so I knew them both as as as working working people and as you know how anxious we all are to get a job. um and um they weren't ready to make those sort of I think choices between the family and stuff. So my early years was sort of bouncing back and forth between going to private schools uh private schools in New York cities and all boy schools and uniforms >> and then going out to California on the
13:04holidays to visit my father whose career incrementally was continuing to uh to improve and beginning to get a taste of that Hollywood. >> Right. Did you get a did you get a feel of that when you were back in New York and you're at you're at school? You must have obviously your dad of course as you said started to work more and more and be you know was a a a major movie star.
13:25How did that start to impact your life when you were back kind of living a New York life? >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, kids uh kids are inherently nasty >> and the truth is [laughter] there's our quote. I don't know if did any of [laughter] you guys go to camp or anything? Do you ever >> So inherently if the kids know something more about you than you know about them >> and in my case, oh his kid's a movie star.
13:56Oh, he must think he's hot. You know, you haven't opened your mouth yet. >> You know, already he's hot [ __ ] So we get him. >> So you already realize that there were pluses that went along with it. Uh but the minuses were the fact that they had something on you. >> They could make assumptions about who you were, what your background was.
14:15Uh which which was was difficult to to some point. So getting back to your question, Jason, I think that's why I thought this was the last thing that I wanted to be involved in. It was this sort of very kind of self-involved films. My mother was a, you know, she was doing soap opers back east on stage and so we had uh nannies are housekeepers and big big part of part of our life.
14:41Mhm. >> But but the but the the life out there in in in in Hollywood, you know, watching what your dad was doing, um all the things that go along with it, was that the first draw to it or was it more about the craft and the art and and because you you did you did study quite vigorously in in New York and did a bunch of theater and like so when when was when was uh at what point did the craft sort of motivate you into the career versus maybe the lifestyle or was the lifestyle ever an attraction to you.

Choosing Acting and Theater

15:14>> No, I think the biggest advantage of being second generation is the lifestyle is not a surprise to you, right? >> You understand? You understand the insecurities, the foibless with my father and his best friends, Tony Curtis, Janet Lee, Gregory Peek, Frank Sinatra, you see them at night. You see them as real people and and their insecurities and this and that.
15:36So no, the reality to me was when I was in college and and had to declare a major and it's a little different what happened, Jason. I I went to University of California at Santa Barbara after going to boy schools my entire life, right? Including prep schools, all boy schools. >> And I remember my senior year, you know, in in in in prep school, you know, you have your college advisor.
16:04And they always reminded me of like travel agents, you know, they had these brochures in their hands and they would go through these brochures like a tra [laughter] you sit there and all of a sudden stop and he pulled out this brochure and there wasn't any Ivy League buildings or anything else. >> It was sort of a high shot of a guy walking down the beach carrying a surfboard in a bathing suit and on either side of him [laughter] was a girl in a two-piece bathing suit.
16:33Now, this was 1963. I had never seen back [clears throat] east a two-piece bathing suit in my life, >> man. On a college brochure. >> So, I said, "Hey, I said I'm going >> That looks good. >> I'm going there, man. I'm I'm going to go there." >> Didn't you get accepted into Yale? >> I did. >> Yeah. So, and you were like, "Yeah, but look at the bikinis."
16:55[laughter] >> Jason, my ass was so tight in in in boarding school. I knew I had to I I I had >> Yeah, you had some catch. >> The beaches in New The beaches in New Haven don't really stack up to the beaches in Santa Barbara. You know what I mean? [laughter] >> So that was the that was actually at 16 or 18 then that was the best that was the first big decision and a crucial decision in my life because for a number of reasons.
17:19It was 1963 64 Vietnam War as is just beginning. East Coast is where the most political activity was going on. Berkeley was leading the the the the ground the other UC campuses uh uh were picking up on it and also the hippie movement uh which played a really important part in my in my life. So what happened after the first year of college at University of California they politely said look I don't think you're ready for college.
17:54Why don't you take it? Wasn't really kicking you out, but why don't you take a years off, a year break, and that's when I went to the Mobile gas station, my hometown of Westport, Connecticut, >> and was the mobile man of the month. >> Those were the days in a gas station. I mean, you guys don't even remember those days in a gas station when you went to get gas.
18:13>> They had your windshield wipers wiped, you had your oil was checked, you had your tire pressure checked. >> You know what, Ruby, you know what you're reminding me of? Remember, you must have known this all too well. Do you remember the sound of that ding? They'd have that hose that go across when a car that ding.
18:26Do you remember that JB when your car would roll up? I love that. That doesn't exist anymore. I used I love this. I don't know. It's it's nostalgic. [laughter] Please. >> It's true. That does not exist anymore. I wonder did uh Michael, was that was there a name for that for that hose? >> Is [laughter] it was it called the ding hose?
18:43I'm serious. >> Watch yourself, Jason. Watch yourself. [laughter] >> The dingho. Let's see. Hey, let's see you watching. Let's see eating that banana again. JB, >> Sean, you had a problem with your dinghos the other day [laughter] and we will be right back. And now back to the show. So what happened?
19:05What happened? I came back to college after my year off. I came back to college and I began >> Santa Barbara to Santa Barbara [snorts] >> had begun to be involved with the uh let's say the artistic group at on the campus that that group that held out hung out in the corner of the student union and in raincoats and dark coats and this and that.
19:28>> Sure. >> And was introduced to this uh you know this this this whole other whole other world. >> Um and when I came back um went to the vi the vice chancellor. He said, "Well, you know, you got to declare a major." I said, "What?" And by this time, man, by this time I, you know, gotten into it a little bit, man.
19:49And so I said, [laughter] >> I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "You have to declare a major." >> I don't know, man. I I said And so I said, "I guess the only thing I know the most about is theater. You know, I know my dad. I watch this." So still never having an inkling about acting or anything like that.
20:07That was when I declared theater as my major >> and began my pursuit on that on that area which I was not a natural at. >> No, but uh you seem pretty natural to me. I mean I I don't I I gather that you know you didn't you didn't learn how to be such a great actor in in in class. I bet you obviously you were born with a lot of it.
20:30It's in your DNA. But um can can you recall the the sort of the your style and your ease with it and your talent with it uh growing over the years and and and did you did you feel like you had enough under your feet when you went into say I would imagine the big launch was Streets of San Francisco. Did you feel that you were equipped enough to to take on that role and and and and vault you into um uh an ability to make a living in the business?
21:04>> No. >> No. >> No. [laughter] >> I I Next question. >> I began I began with major major stage fright. >> Okay. >> I could not go on I could not walk onto a stage without a waste basket right off stage >> which I would puke into. >> Really? Before I go on the stage, I had wow >> total stage fright and I never thought I'd be overcoming.
21:27And the only reason the only reason I think I actually stayed at it was to try to overcome the stage fright. >> And what did it? So, one big thing happened in here at this time was that >> after my sophomore season, my stepfather, William Darren, who I grew up with, >> was on the board of a new theater called the National Playrights Conference in Waterford, Connecticut.

Learning Craft at Playwrights

21:53And what they would do every summer is they would put on like six new plays. And they had a small acting group that would, you know, would do these plays. And my first summer there, I was just sort of in printers kind of cleaning up. But what happened is then they sort of allowed me to be part of the company.
22:13And the focus was on the material >> on the play. >> You were only there as an actor as a a a tool to make these plays better. So you would sit there and you would run through the scenes, run through the show, and then you'd sit on the sidelines and listen to the notes >> that the director would be giving to the playright in ways of how to improve the quality.
22:40>> Yeah. >> So at a very early age, right at the beginning, I learned that everything was the material. >> Everything was about the quality of the material. >> And that allowed you to get out of your head about the result of your performance. It certainly helped. It certainly helped. But it allowed me to help understand the choices that I made professionally later on.
22:59I.e. it wasn't about the part. >> It wasn't about starring. It's about how good I think this is going to be a good movie. >> And because I had these years of of of formation on it >> and then I was, you know, so then after school I was doing off Broadway in New York. um and finally got a a CBS playhouse which she did on television which turned out really well and CBS back then had a filled vision.
23:30I signed a contract. I went out to California and proceeded to make five turkeys, five [laughter] really shitty movies. Um, >> yeah, >> one the one I remember about because CBS also owned Radio City Music Hall >> and uh the the movie was shown at Radio City Music Hall >> and this friend of mine John who was one of the playwrights that I had met O'Nealing.
24:00I he called me. I said, "John, did you see the show?" He said, "Yeah, yeah, but what' you think?" He said, "Michael, let me just say there were more people up on stage with the Rockett than there were in the audience. [laughter] Did I you know you know not to sort of to go go back a little bit but you know it's interesting when I hear you as a young actor and you have that experience with the playrs and that and that that process that must have helped you carried you on because you've had such a
24:28prolific career also as a producer and it must have you you had an early appreciation of what it is to build a thing that it's about the m all that stuff. Is that true? Is that accurate? That's exactly true, Will. And and that's why I can't emphasize it enough uh of how important it was not looking for parts.

Streets of San Francisco Years

24:47So anyway, after these the five turkeys, I was sort of sliding into television. And this is where, you know, where good luck, you know, just good grace happens for you. And two things happened to me early in my career was I was doing FBI and medical centers and and this and that. And then uh Streets came up and Streets was a lawsuit that uh Quinn Martin, who was a very big time producer at that time, The Fugitive, Canon, Martin, had all these shows that he did, they used to do.
25:20Uh Quinn had this lawsuit with this brand new network called ABC. >> Yeah. >> And he won the lawsuit. The result of winning the lawsuit was a 2-hour introduction movie to the series and 26-hour episodes committed like in the first season. >> So they, you know, for guys said, "Hey man, this is this is this is a real great opportunity.
25:45It's >> a go show." >> And it starred Carl Malden. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And Carl Malden, you know, was worshiped by by Marlon Brando and and was just unbelievably hardworking actor and a really good actor. >> So those five years I did 104 hours uh that I spent with Carl Malden. Wow. And also structurally, once again, preludes, three acts, you prologues, learning structurally, you know, and what your responsibility as an actor is.

Producing Cuckoo's Nest

26:21And then working with different directors every week and this >> was was so was so helpful and was was a was a tremendous opportunity. And then that the god from God that was handed down was the was one flew over the cuckoo's nest which was a project >> incredible >> my father had developed and gone back himself to Broadway to do the show.
26:41It hadn't worked out. I had read in college 20th century American literature the book like everybody was taking acid. It was their favorite uh their favorite their favorite novel. And then as I was working away and then I sort of overheard dad talking about selling the project when I was there and I said, "Oh man, I never thought about producing, but dad, please let me try to get this set up.
27:08I'll try to get it set up, you know, with you playing the part with the production company and all this." >> So the original idea was for your dad to play the lead part, correct? Not you. >> Oh, correct. No, it was it was be his. >> How old Excuse me. How old were you at the time? And this is ambitious.
27:25>> Yeah, it was ambitious. I was I I started about I was 23. >> Wow. >> I was 23 going when that movie came out. That's amazing. >> And but the movie by the time the movie came out I was I was 30. >> Uh okay. >> But he was so he tried so then he said well give me a year. Let me try to get it going. And so while I was doing Streets of San Francisco, which was being filmed in San Francisco, and we were shooting 26 episodes on location, so six six days a week, >> right?
27:59Six days a week, eight eight and a half months straight. >> I was a [ __ ] I mean, I was I was, you know, every scenes, you know, you couldn't ask >> uh for any harder work. At the same time, I was able to hook up with uh this guy, my partner, Saul Zance, over at Fantasy Records in Berkeley, which is up there.
28:21So, I would then go on over to to Berkeley. We would work and nurture it. And so, by the time I finished the fourth season, uh we were able to make the movie. >> Wow. >> And they wrote your character off to free you up to give you the time to do all the finishing work on the producing. Yes, >> correct, Jason.
28:38But the reality is that, and we all know, and I know you know that, you know, for a network to say, "I have a 5-year contract with you, right, but we're going to let you out." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It doesn't happen, man. It doesn't happen at all. >> Yeah. >> Well, what do what do you think what do you think you saw in that project that that no one else saw?
28:58Because you you did get a series of passes there. It did take a while to get it going and then it go then it does eventually go on to become the film that it is. wins all five major Academy Awards. Um, you know, and you're 31 and uh what what do you what do you it couldn't have been blind luck. Um what what what do you think you saw in it that uh that that everyone else ended up finally seeing?
29:24>> I I think I saw that it was a really really good story, you know, really really classic good story and I think I overcame everybody say um you who wants to see another snake pit. Sure. >> That was the big deal. Who wants to see no one wants to see a picture about crazy people? >> And I bought later on I checked out and Snake Pit did very well.
29:44Thank you very much. [laughter] And it wasn't that it wasn't the thing that happened. >> But I think it was the it was the the innocence and not having been burnt yet and making the mistakes and and Saul, my partner, sort of was the same way. So, and we were strictly strictly an independent picture, but uh we went, you know, and I remember so Saul and I went to talk to the directors and most of them were up in the San Francisco Bay area and they were all kind of smug and you know, we tried to talk to them.
30:16They kind of kept their cards close to their vest. You really couldn't feel what it was going to be. >> Yeah. Where did you get Milo for? And we found a me lotion and we remember looking someone told me about Milo and a couple of his pictures his check pictures. One was called the fireman's ball which was >> in one way was similar to Cuckoo's Ness in that all the characters took place like in one room and had the right sort of humor >> and uh Milo who was in the middle of sort of a breakdown
30:49was living in the Chelsea hotel in New York >> and uh he had They happen. >> He had a friend of his, Ivonne Passer, also Czech director. And Milos would give Ivon Passer all his information about what he wanted Ivon to tell his shrink. And then Ivonne would go instead of Ivan McNeil would leave, Ivon would go for [laughter] for Milos to to the shrink and uh share all the stuff and come back.
31:17So the fact that when we got the script to me, he flew all the way out to California [snorts] >> and he sat down with us at my my place up in Ben Canyon and opened the first page and he told us exactly what he wanted to do. I remember and Saul and I just started crying. We were just like, "Oh god, here's a man who's going to share with us, >> but we want so much."
31:43And so >> how about that? >> When did Jack Nicholson come on board? Was that Milish's idea? Was it studio? Was it? >> It was. No. No. He We tried We tried to get Jean Hackman. Gene Hackman passed. >> At what point did your father What at what point did your father say, "Yeah, it's not going to be for me.
31:58Go cast it." >> That's That's not the way it went down. [laughter] >> Oh, wow. >> No. The moment came. Moment came when I had to go to dad and say, "Dad, we got it going. Uh, but you're it's not going to be you playing Mcmurphy." >> Wow. How'd that conversation go? >> Yeah. >> You know, careers had changed.
32:17She was in his 60s by then. >> Okay. >> Uh and the bit business had changed. And it took me even a long time, I'm sure you guys know, to realize you can count on three fingers the good parts you have in your life. You know, the really good parts you have in your life. >> And this was one of this was a great part.
32:38>> And he was hurt, upset. I mean, I gave him half of our my producing deal, >> which ended up being more money than he made than any picture he'd ever done in [laughter] his life, >> right? Sure. >> Which made things a little a little easier, >> but uh it was the toughest thing I'd ever had to do, you know.
33:01>> How long did it take to repair that kind of relationship after that? >> Um, that's a good question. You know, I talked about it in my book, you know, a lot. And I had the greatest adoration for my father. Uh but he was rough uh when we were kids. He was out of that he was out of that abusive abusive generation, you know.
33:23>> Yeah. You did something wrong, you'd get slapped or >> get smacked big time. >> Yeah. Sure. And so we were, you know, we were pretty scared of him and and not to mention the fact that he just was this omnipotent character, you know, Christ Sparticus and the Vikings and he just larger than life and he had a temper that went along with it.
33:42So >> our our relationship was not was cautious growing growing up and my love for him grew and grew to the day he died and my admiration. But in the early days, um, it wasn't there >> and that that and that certainly didn't help, you know. >> Maybe maybe maybe you mentioned this in the book. I don't know.
34:04I haven't I I'm really look forward to reading it, but was was there a moment where you guys were able to sort of you got over it and you guys were able to reconcile? Did you ever have the >> I don't know what's the word closure that you wanted from it from from this experience? >> Yeah, I I I I did.
34:20I mean uh we did you know at a at a professional point in time which I think really was uh for me it was the year the year of fatal attraction followed by Wall Street >> three months later and winning the Oscar >> for me finally feeling like I stepped out of the shadow >> of this of this amazing guy.

Fatal Attraction and Wall Street

34:45>> You know I for the first time ever in my entire life about two months ago I watched Wall Street. >> Yeah. Oh wow. >> I just saw it and I was blown. Of course I was blown away. And you and you say, Michael, there's three roles that are, you know, that an actor gets. You've had I feel like you've had many.
35:01>> I know. I was going to say there's an incredible run. First of all, you mentioned Fatal Attraction. You can't And you don't know how many times in my life I've used the expression. I will not be ignored, Danny. Um, but you you was there was there a mo What was that moment? Because you did have this incredible run of these great roles.
35:18What what was the first coming out of Cuckoo's Nest as a producer and you've done Streets, you've done all this stuff. What was the first film role that you were like, "Okay, now I'm I'm in a I'm in a whole whole different league here now." You know, this is getting the attention and now I'm getting the offered the roles I want.
35:34Do you remember that? Was there a sign? >> Well, yeah. But but here's the gate. I was an Academy Award-winning producer. >> Yeah. >> But I was a television actor, >> right? I was and you all know it's really it's gotten a lot better >> but back then man it was two separate rails. You were in television and I think before me only I think it was Steve McQueen >> and uh and Clint Eastwood >> who had made that transition from then from go getting into films.
36:04So I got the Oscar. set up of the production office as a producer and I'm and I'm and I'm I'm h and I'm hanging on to what I realize is my biggest strength which is understanding material knowing good material not worrying about my part not worrying and you [clears throat] say good roles but a lot of my movies you know uh Glen Close had had a great role Sharon Stone had a lot of times it was never about my starring role I just wanted to be in a good movie and I fig it was better to be
36:42>> Yeah. But yeah, but you shone through. You shone through no matter even though you say that despite you were Yeah, man. I mean, integral to all. what it's what I've what I've watched and studied and admired for so long about you, Michael, in your career is that I it's so it's so interesting to hear you put to words what I guess I've been absorbing, which is that you've always been servicing the the film, the story there.
37:07There's I've never watched you and thought, "Oh, this guy is doing me a favor and giving me a performance that he thinks I bought a ticket to come see." Right. >> No, like you've always behaved on screen assuming that the audience has bought a ticket to see the film, not you. Um, and so you've always just disappeared and you've been you've been us on the screen.
37:35You've been this this this trustworthy proxy that is experiencing whatever story is going on around you. And it's just been it's been it's been it's been a real gift that that you've given. I can just speak for myself. You've given me you have been this great proxy, this great tour guide that have brought me through so many great stories and environments and and challenges and and complications and decisions and successes all through your characters on these in these in these in these
38:08stories. It's just it's just been stunning. I I just I couldn't imagine having a better career. Truly. >> Well, thank thank you very much. It is true because the one note that I hear more than anything else from people is, >> you know, when I see your name, >> I don't know what it's going to be, but I know it's going to be good.
38:28>> That's exactly right. That's exactly right. >> Yeah. I mean, what a what a compliment. And I remember hearing a story once this guy was telling about a big movie star. I'm not going to name names. A big movie star went in. and he was having this is 30 years ago and he went into a studio and a well-known studio executive who we all know as well and the star the movie star was saying you know what I want he came in late and he said I want to do this I want to do that and the executive
38:50stopped him and said >> hey [ __ ] I'll put the guard at the gate in your role you're not the star the movie is the star >> that's right >> and it always be that story like that idea it kind of goes back to what you were saying Michael just always it's it's the story it's the film right and it's >> it's important Even hearing you say it now, it's like I've just absorbed that and been like, "Yeah, I got to remember that.
39:12I got to remember that." >> So, starting after that then, you know, I got a run of good productions again because after after Cuckoo's Nest, >> um, I had Romancing the Stone, which [clears throat] I wasn't going to play the part. I just I couldn't get an actor to play the part, you know. Oh, I I I tried to get [clears throat] and then finally I was fortunate enough uh the studio wanted a Deborah Winger.
39:37Uh it's another story and uh and then [laughter] I didn't work out. And then finally the studio, you know, had bet Kathleen Turner was she had done um a sexy picture she made. >> Oh, the heat of No, not the heat of the night. >> No, with with uh Bill Hurt. Um >> yeah, I know what you're talking about.
39:59I can see the poster right now. >> Was that before or after China Syndrome? >> That was after. And then China Syndrome. Uh and originally I wasn't going to play the part. Richard Dus was going to play the third role. >> Such a great movie. >> Uh and then the July. So I had like four more hits as a producer.
40:17I I happened to be in them but didn't have parts. >> But I had you know I was developing a movie called Starman. >> Oh, >> which Jeff Bridges did. I I wasn't approved. I wasn't approved as the actor uh for No. >> Yeah. No, I'm I was producing Jeff was, >> you know, so there was still a lot of that for for a while.
40:40>> We'll be right back. And back to the show. And then what was the thing that gave you sort of the the the box office juice to be able to be the film star? Uh was was it was it that year of Fatal Traction Wall Street in ' 87? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. That was that was really kind of where it it it was okay.

Producing Versus Acting Choices

41:02It's put to bed now or at least I did. >> I mean that's that's bizarre to me to think to think that it was that late. >> Yeah. I had some hostilities about it. I mean I did about the well about the whole television thing versus feature film. It's always been. >> But as a producer though, you must have been cognizant of sort of minding the pocketbook and what what star could translate to a a presumed base level of ticket sales based on what they did in the last film and all that stuff.
41:30So you you were probably aware a little bit of of what the studio's agenda might have been and how it kind of made sense even though it probably didn't feel any better. But >> I was uh Jason, but I was so fortunate from the very beginning that I only went on >> um this this is the best person for it or or I mean I never ever took an audience's reaction into it.
41:53Another picture like that would be falling down, you know, falling falling down, which I love was a picture that, you know, nobody thought thought of was gonna do work at all. But I just realized how important those years at the O'Neal and then all those all those script episodes really just played such an important part in reminding me about structure and uh telling being able to tell a good a good story and also the reality that if I didn't do the part man there's 10 other people

Marvel, Comedy and New Challenges

42:30>> that can you know most of these most of these incredible characters that you've played they're they're men who uh who are seemingly in control, but they're they're they're really they're deeply flawed and and uh what what is it about those characters that for you make it so fun to play and to explore and and to kind of make your own?
42:51>> I think it's just the the the generation that I grew up with. I think the Vietnam War made the gray area. Who's the good guys? Who's the bad guys? My dad's generations, they had white hats and black hats. >> Yeah. >> My generation is always been a little murky >> and I I seem to be attracted to the you know the person >> exploring that >> that Yeah.
43:21>> Yeah. Cuz it does seem like Yeah. You you're mentioning the generation before there was this um this this this artifice that that that the the male role needed to adopt or learn or carry. Um and and then you know you playing these parts where the the the the fun for the audience is watching these these cracks in that veneer in that artifice and and seeing the vulnerabilities and the uh and the humanity in these in these uh outwardly seeming uh put together men.
43:50>> Yeah. And but even looking back to to Cuckoo's desk, we could not find an actress to play Nurse Ratchet >> because the politics the politics for women at that time was you you don't you don't want to be a villain. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Oh, interesting. >> Guys, guys, guys love the villain part, right?
44:10We man, we want to play the villains. The most uh interesting part back then. and Grant Mang Braftoft, Colleen Doohers, Geraldine Paige, they all turned it down. >> They didn't they didn't want to play play the uh play the part. >> Let me ask you guys a quick question. >> Yes, sir. >> With all of your successful careers, man.
44:30Jason, I brought you a wonderful actor, but hell of a director, man. Hell of a director, too. >> Thank you, sir. >> Sean, what can I say? >> You guys worked together on Will and Grace, didn't you? >> We did. We wor together and grace. [laughter] How did this how did you come about on this? And then I just see that you're live at Hollywood Bowl.
44:50>> So this is a this is a whole biggest big thing, man. I >> I mean it's who it's it's the greatest gift. It's the greatest gift that's ever come to the three of us. You know, >> we get to hang around and be idiots. Um and uh and and we get to talk to folks like you and and and have these conversations.
45:07And fortunately for us, there's a bunch of people out there that are willing to listen to us. Days like today are it never it never feels like a job but days like today talking to you is just it's unbelievable and and >> yeah I mean and and like these are Michael when you were on Will and Grace I would have never asked you these questions but now I now now in this form I wanted you to the producers told you not to [laughter] just like blown away that I was acting with him.
45:30Can I just ask so you you do all this I mean you again as Jason pointed out and we all know you have this incredible you know uh you all these incredible roles and all these incredible projects that you produced and that you shephered and that you believed in when other people didn't and you do all this stuff and then you in the last I don't forget when you did the first one but you you kind of >> dipped your toe and went fully into the Marvel world and all of a sudden you're
45:55doing a whole different genre of thing. Was that was that like a was Did your W was that just like just another gig or was like stepping into another world for you after all that you had done? >> Right. Well, let me let me just back up uh a little bit. It helps explain it. So what I've done in the book, you know, obviously I my my childhood I think is pretty interesting in terms of my mother being Bermudeian and my father a Russian Jew and how they came together at academy and and all that stuff and u and
46:30and growing up and but then what I decided to do as a producer a book that really meant a lot to me was a book called Memo by David Oel's And if you ever get [clears throat] a chance or ever interested to know what a producer does, >> read memo. >> So what I thought I would do rather than just kind of continuing my history was I took 10 chapters and in I took 10 chapters, I took 10 movies and I go in depth.
47:01I mean I mean a whole length 30 40 pages on each of them talking about how it was created initiated what the steps were that came through it all >> what personal involvements there might have been in the making of it and so that takes up a a a good chunk and then for me um I remember I got um I got cancer I I got stage four cancer um And things weren't looking great.
47:37>> Yeah. >> And so this is moving on after a whole crux of stuff. And after my cancer and and uh and and after I survived and uh and got out of it, I was really fortunate enough to have this Liberace project uh with Steven Soderberg and Matt Damon behind the candalabra, which was great. Fantastic. And then I just said, well, look, what haven't I done?
48:03What what what what do I want now? Now what what do I want to do now that now that mortality is a more of an interesting subject for me than it was before? >> And I said, well, you know, I've never done any green screen. I haven't done a green screen picture. [laughter] And that was that was uh uh how that, you know, sort of started.
48:24And uh so you know I looked around the agents and um and the Ant-Man thing came up and and it was fascinating and I'm sure you guys [clears throat] are familiar with green screen but you know it's another type of acting. It's it's it's it's interesting. It's weird and there's some people are really good at it.
48:43>> And then the other thing is they said what else haven't you done? >> Well I love comedy. I I love comedy. I'm not particularly good at it but I I just appreciate it. I never know why it's not nominated for Oscars every year. We all appreciate comedians and and and funny people. >> So the situation with uh with Chuck Lloyd, Allan Arin.
49:06>> Oh, yeah. >> The Kamiski method, you know, >> so I said, man, what a chance to to learn >> Oh, that's right. >> You know, [ __ ] to learn the comedy. I mean, Chuck Loren, >> Ar. >> So I did that. I did that and then finally I I said I've never done a period picture. Every movie I make is about contemporary >> situations and all of that.
49:26So the Ben Franklin >> series came up, eight episodes took all year that and after that I realized I was tired, you know, deeply tired and I took [clears throat] but a lifetime a lifetime of tired and I sort of stopped working not retired stopped working but I love not working. I love not working. Well, it's given you a chance to to sit and review uh how it all how how well you have spent your years.
49:57I mean, good. >> You know what, Michael? We ask a lot of It's funny you just answered a thing. We we ask a lot of people. We say uh you know, you've done this and you've been you're known for this genre or whatever and we say, "Is there anything that you haven't done?" And I like the idea that you you kept asking yourself, "What is the thing I haven't done?"
50:15And and really gone for it. And and there's a sort of uh I think that's a great way to approach it, right? To like how can I challenge myself now? I mean, is that what you would say to young actors to have that mindset? >> Well, I don't I don't know what to say to him now because it's so damn tough. It is so tough, man.
50:36>> You know, no, there's no casting, you don't see a casting agent anymore. You self tape. They never they don't even have offices anymore. used to go in and see your casting agent, you know, and they get to know you. It's It's so tough. I've got three kids, all who are actors. They're doing okay. >> Uh but it's tough.
50:52But but to finish this off, so all that happened and back when I had the cancer, there was a guy named Shane Serno who had done a rewrite for me really early on. And I was shocked when you how few people reach out to me with cancer. Maybe something about cancer. They don't want to get, you know, but nobody get much.
51:14Shane, who I hardly knew, he every day would write me these, you know, you can do a kick. You're gonna make you're gonna be fine. No, you can't. Anyway, so Shane's got a a literary agency kind of company now. And then he just kept pushing me, hawking me about doing a book and doing a book and and then I thought about it and I think, you know, between dad and I now we got >> 90 years.
51:4090 years in the stories in the film industry, 160 movies. >> Uh my dad was a very prolific. He wrote about 10 books. >> So just for a legacy, I figured, you know, I would keep it going for a legacy to write the book. And then also for my memory because you forget a lot of >> Were were you were you uh were you happy with your level of recall?
52:03I have a hard time remembering last week. Um, but it like was that what was that process like? I would imagine you wouldn't know how good it's going to be until you start getting into it. Um, but it sounds like you you've it's crystal clear on all of this incredible detail. >> Jason, I'll tell you my secret right now.
52:23Hire someone to start looking [laughter] going back over your diary and just start placing it together each year because you have no idea. I have no idea. And then in the book I talk about it a lot where uh the years of some heavy drug use >> uh messes up and be careful what you wish for because all of a sudden I had a big production company.
52:46I could finance movies. I had people running it. I lost that ability to pick one thing at a time and uh and I was a little overwhelmed. Uh you know had issues with my son. He was in federal prison for seven and a half years my first marriage. So, um, I look back and, um, I'm happy to talk about the the the demise of the downfall of cocaine for one, you know, same.
53:16Do you do you when you when you do look back and you and you and you've written this book and you talk about all these things and these are just life, right? I mean, these these are things that happen in life and I I feel like now we're all in our mid to late 50s, could play easily could play 40s, right?
53:32late 30s maybe. Uh but but you know when you look back are you are you despite the things that you had the great success and and thing and and and tough times when you look back do you go like hey you know what it kind of you feel okay about it in that way like do you feel >> oh [ __ ] yeah I mean [laughter] well first of all you know Hollywood royalty I mean you know which which really this this nepo thing really pisses me off because I don't know a career where a father or mother don't try to help their
54:06son or daughter get into their business and this and that and why why they picked on this because of of the of the well-known aspect of it. >> But yeah, no, I I I like I said, what a ride, man. It's been >> it's been it's been unbelievable and um um other other than uh too much drug abuse. Uh I can't >> sure [laughter] by Sorry, Jimmy.
54:29I was going to say it's funny you say the Nepo thing. It's like we don't chase down when we see a plumbing truck that says McGlinen sons. We don't go, "Hey, you Nepo ass." >> Well, that's what that's what I was going to say. It it's not exclusive to the entertainment industry. There there are sons and daughters >> everywhere, but but they make it like it's it's like we're the only one, you know?
54:48>> Well, you you managed to uh to to weather that all very well seemingly. Is is there something that you can say to the the the the children of uh of of parent our kids or you know kids in the but kids in any industry that feel like they might have a burden of living through or up to the shadow of the generation before them.
55:10Is there is there something that that really helped you navigate that uh as successfully as you did? >> Recognizing good material. I mean, not not counting on it. I mean I mean getting something. The problem we all have is we we don't play an instrument or we don't paint or we don't write. You know, we're standing there.
55:29But a good piece of material, man, a good piece of material >> helps the helps things along well. But but personally that that sort of conversation you have with yourself about am I even going to try to um live up to or even exceed um what has come before me? What what what what was it that you identified in yourself that gave you kind of the the in the the inner strength to do that?
56:01I think it was in inherited from my father who had incredible stamina, tenacity, was a [ __ ] and you know was just really uh really really tough >> and could could you know hang on there. This is as we all know this is not a business if uh rejection is is going to mend you over you know it's it's rejection is the fuel I think it makes you tougher and and and stronger and I think you have to create your own your own identity you have to trust in yourself rather than um >> try to become an an image of a of a
56:44relative >> that that's true for life >> because for all the I just I'm 82 two now and I've just recently said, "Hey, man, with all this, there's not a lot of two generation movie stars." You know what I mean? [clears throat] I can't name [laughter] it, you know? So, get pat yourself on the back, man.
57:03And, you know, getting get Well, you sir, that that that would have been another great alternate title for your uh for your book there. a big a big big pat on the back cuz my god >> I tried I was going to call it before I forget but uh [laughter] >> that's a great title >> but they all said wait what wait Alzheimer's what's his problem they all take >> it I you you you mentioned that you had somebody go through all your diaries and stuff and actually I'm legit want to know did you have you been good about
57:33keeping a really good diary all these years of stuff that you've done >> Oh no I I I have no diary at all I mean I I I just have my my secretaries, you know, my address, my address where I I mean, I forget what year I made a movie >> and then [laughter] then slowly doing that and then I was fortunate enough to work with enough actors uh who had better memories than I did.
57:55>> Oh, [laughter] great. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Oh, great. Well, listen, um I'm going to let you go and uh I I cannot thank you enough for doing this and and talking with us and and uh I know once I read the book, I'm going to thank you again for for putting it all down on paper. So, um, uh, huge, huge thanks to all you've done, um, including this, uh, this hour with us today, sir.
58:16>> Thanks, Michael. >> We'll appreciate it, guys. You do a wonderful job. >> So, keep it a positive bowl. Okay. Okay. >> Who knew? We'll see you there. >> Take care. Lots of love. All right. Byebye. >> Thank you, sir. Thanks, Mike. >> Byebye. >> Bye. >> Well, that was um I mean, we didn't but we didn't we didn't even get to fatal.
58:38We we didn't we didn't get to basic instinct or the game >> like I wanted to ask him about >> I will not be ignored Dan >> his relationship with Danny DeVito that's still like >> I wanted to ask but I didn't >> let's bring it back let's do a two for this guy I think Michael Douglas needs minimum two episodes >> yeah for sure stunning what what he's what he's done >> well it's funny when he when he was on Will and Grace and I was like I want to ask him about all that and then he's on
59:05today I was like I want to ask him about all that and I didn't do either >> can't do No, but [laughter] >> got to read his book. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I guess you got to read his book, which will But it's just it it's it's stunning. And he was saying, you know, Yeah. It's hard to come out to step out from uh the the shadow of of somebody like Kirk Douglas.
59:21It's, you know, like as he said, Spartacus for Christ, just that alone. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And not He not only did it, I mean, he did it >> exceeded his father's legacy. >> Yeah. He really did. and and because he had so many roles that were so different and and and was so long lasting over so many decades and generations of people who appreciate him as a movie star.
59:44>> Um it's it's it's remarkable. Truly remarkable. >> I I always reference Fatal Attraction as the perfect movie scene to scene. Like just the way it's built is is incredible. And you know that you know the different ending, right? >> Is that Adrien Lynn? >> Yeah. Fatal line. >> What's that? >> Adrian, the director.
59:59Sorry. >> Yeah. He's amazing. But you know, she wasn't shot in the [ __ ] head at the end originally. She killed herself. She sliced her own neck. >> Oh wow. Really? >> Yeah. And that you can see how they shoot it. They shot it. >> Yeah. You can watch it. Yeah. It's [snorts] It's wild. And like the whole >> So they tested that and it didn't >> That's exactly right.
1:00:16And the audience is like, "Well, that's not very satisfying. I want to see her get killed by, you know, somebody else." >> Oh, wow. >> And so, um, yeah, it was wild. It's wild to see it cuz she and then she frames him because his fingerprints are on the knife that she kills herself with and then the cops show up.
1:00:32>> Yeah. Oh, and an you know the other thing is she had a really solid alibi >> by >> so fast by >> smartass

Memoir, Cancer and Legacy

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