In short · Summary by AI
Ross Edgley joins Joe Rogan to recount his extreme endurance swims, including a 60-hour Loch Ness swim where he suffered hypothermia and cellulitis, and his Iceland swim undertaken shortly after learning his wife was pregnant. The conversation roams through Viking and Berserker lore, animal and shark encounters, Olympic and MMA endurance stories, recovery peptides, and the idea that pushing one's limits reshapes what people believe they can do.
- Edgley recounts his 60-hour non-stop Loch Ness swim, where he suffered hypothermia and cellulitis, blacked out, and woke up in hospital about 13 hours later.
- He describes a later Italian swim in very hot water where he developed rhabdomyolysis, with creatine kinase at 19,000, and his kidneys recovered after a few days.
- Edgley swam roughly 1,000 miles around Iceland and returned three days before his son was born, after the pregnancy changed his motivation.
- The hosts discuss Berserkers, Viking lore, Icelandic elf beliefs, and the trend of guests tying extreme endurance to ideas about self-discipline and self-discovery.
- Edgley explains the neuroscience he uses to push through suffering, framing it as grit versus strategy and dopamine dips in the ventral striatum.
- The episode covers recovery tools discussed, including stem cells, hyperbaric and red light therapy, and peptides like BPC-157, which Edgley credits with saving his rotator cuff recovery.
- Edgley closes by saying his purpose is to shift people's sense of what they are capable of, not to recommend his lifestyle.
- 0:01Scotch whiskey tasting intro
- 2:37Loch Ness swim and hypothermia
- 5:27Italian heat wave and rhabdomyolysis
- 8:52Iceland swim and bulletproof mindset
- 10:01Amazon tongue ritual and snake lore
- 19:42Reindeer herders and animal stories
- 22:53Great whites and tiger sharks
- 28:29Yukon River swim and bears
- 31:24Berserkers, Vikings, and Icelandic folklore
- 40:09Consciousness, elves, and mushrooms
- 47:45Fatherhood and the Iceland finish
- 51:39Father, legacy, and pursuing hardship
- 54:02Grit, quit, and strategy under pain
- 1:04:00Fighters, mind games, and cardio
- 1:17:10Strength reserve and swimming performance
- 1:29:54Ocean conservation and Somali piracy
- 1:39:46Altitude training and endurance
- 1:51:47Emil Zatopek and ultra races
- 2:00:39MMA durability and special forces tests
- 2:12:03Water polo and ADHD discussion
- 2:18:33Creatine, caffeine, and cognitive tools
- 2:20:15Recovery peptides and stem cells
Scotch whiskey tasting intro
0:01Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. All day. >> Thank you. My man brought 18year-old. >> That's good. >> Woo. That's the real deal. 18year-old single malt scotch whiskey. >> That's smoky. >> Delicious. >> That is smoky. I had a this is a true story.
0:30I had a deal set up for a a whiskey deal like they wanted to do, you know, they do these things like with celebrities and I was like, "Well, we got a lot of money. I guess I could do it. All right, let's do it." And so they said that they could help me like design the whiskey. I'm like, "Oh, that'd be really cool."
0:47So, at first I wanted to do it with Buffalo Trace, but Buffalo Trace was like, "Look, we love you, but the reality is our whiskey takes like eight years in a barrel, period. M like this. This the only way they do it. Like, oh, that makes sense. That's why it's so good. Okay, that makes sense. So, I tried this whiskey and I was like, "Ah, it's pretty good.
1:05It's pretty good." I tried gave it to my friends like, "It's pretty good." And then I [ __ ] up and I had some 18-year-old scotch and it was so good. I'm like, "I can't lie. If if I'll say this is my favorite whiskey, but that will be a lie cuz this is so much better. >> This is There's no substitute for time.
1:26No, >> there's no substitute for time in those barrels. >> That tastes like Scotland as well, doesn't it? >> I remember one of the writers when I was on news radio, he exposed me to this stuff. He said, "Uh, do you like whiskey?" I'm like, "It's okay. It's kind of nasty. You just do it to get a buzz, right?"
1:39He's like, "No, no, no. You got to like He was like very specific. You have like a a large cube of ice and he's like, "Come on, let me buy you a It's like a $200 whiskey." I'm like, "What? $200 for a [ __ ] glass?" He's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trust me, trust me." And so he bought me this glass. I was like, "Oh, oh, okay."
1:56>> It was £200. >> It's a different thing. >> It's a different thing. If you drink a 20-year-old whiskey, it's a very different thing. So, it cost me who knows how much money >> cuz I I got to get out of the deal. And they're like, "What?" And I was like, "I can't." No. Like, I can't lie. I can't lie and say this is my favorite.
2:15>> I respect that. I respect that. >> I can't I could if I was poor. Look, if I was broke, I could lie, but I'm I have a lot of money, so I'm like, I'm not lying >> to the sanctity of whiskey. >> Because this is there's they figured it out. Like the Irish and the Scotch the Scots, they figured it out >> in Scotland.
2:31This is like a religious thing. >> Yeah, for sure. >> They don't [ __ ] around. >> For sure. >> You get some really old Scotch, man. Really old Scotch whiskey has a very distinct taste >> and they're willing to wait [ __ ] 18 years to get that taste. That's crazy. >> M That just reminds me of Scotland.
Loch Ness swim and hypothermia
2:52>> We had to stop the podcast before the podcast even started cuz we were talking about so much cool [ __ ] I'm like, I'm going to leave the room >> cuz uh I don't want us to miss any of this. So, first of all, you were telling me you swam around the you 60 hours in Loch Ness. >> Yeah. Speaking of Scotland.
3:09>> Oh, cuz we This is strange cuz obviously it was seven years ago now when we caught up when I swam around Great Britain and then since then >> that was seven years ago. weird, right? Wow. Right. And then and then now I've just been on this kind of strange career trajectory, if you can call it a career in inverted commas.
3:23So, we did yet a 60 hour uh non-stop swim in Loch Ness. Um was going well. So, it was all for ocean conservation. We raised so much money. It was amazing. Um it was going well up until the 60 hour point. Started hallucinating, started seeing things. Basically, the only way I can describe it is um uh you like you're looking through the eye of a needle.
3:40It's just getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And then it just went completely black. Just went completely dark. >> Did you black out? Yeah. Blacked out. Basically, it was hypothermia mixed with cellulitis. So, cellulitis is a skin infection. Exactly. Exactly. From the wet suit that was just getting to my blood.
3:56>> God. You had a staff infection and at the same time you were hypothermic >> and at the same time you've been up for 3 days. >> Yeah. It's exactly. It was a bad place to be, Joe. It was a bad place. >> That's so crazy. 60 hours of swimming is so insane. 60 hours of running is insane. But you could stop running and take a nap.
4:14You know what I'm saying? >> It was so bad with the Loch Ness monster. It was bad. It was bad. >> Do you think that's real? >> Um I mean something touched my leg when I was in >> But you were hallucinating. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. I'm not the best person to ask, but exactly what you just said there.
4:28It was strange cuz my skin was on fire from the cellulitis, but then I could feel in my bones. I was getting so cold. >> Anyway, long story short, God, >> blacked out. I woke up and um just Oh, there we go. Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, there you go. Yeah. It's all over your back and your neck. >> Oh, so you just ridden with staff infection.
4:48>> Yeah, that's how bad it was. >> Oh, that's horrible. >> And I think it was it was that coupled with the hypothermia. So, this is going to sound so strange, but but it went completely black. I remember waking up and then I was in the hospital. >> So, did they have to scoop you out of the water? >> Yeah.
5:00Yeah. >> How do they do you have someone beside you like with a net like? >> Yeah, we had we had a team. They were amazing. They scooped me up. I look, I basically open my eyes, the next thing I know, I see my mom and my girlfriend at the head of the the hospital bed and I just went, "Oh, it's not gone well, has it?"
5:14And they were like, "Ross, no, it's not going." >> You woke up in the hospital room. >> Yeah. >> Wow. So, the entire transport to the hospital, you were out cold. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How long were you out cold for? >> They think about 13 hours. Yeah. I was sort of >> You were out cold for 13 hours. >> Coming in and out of I don't I don't say it proudly.
Italian heat wave and rhabdomyolysis
5:28Sort of coming in and out of consciousness. cuz I still sort of remember little bits but then like I said the main thing was just being there with my mom and my girlfriend and they were just they looked disappointed. I was like I'm so sorry. So so from there what's interesting a year later uh in Lake Tresamino in Italy um we did another swim for charity.
5:45It was amazing. Everything was organized but because of Italian bureaucracy they said you have to do it on this particular day. Um getting into the water it was 36° and I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit but hot. It was a bath basically. We got caught in a heat wave. So going in there, um, I had hypothermia before.
6:04Now I have hypothermia. It's a heat stroke. Um, we >> So you're like swimming in a hot bath >> basically. >> What is 36° in Fahrenheit? Is that like 90°? >> Yeah. 96.8. Yeah. >> 96. Holy [ __ ] That's crazy. What is there a [ __ ] volcano under there? >> This is it. That's nuts. >> So they said it was the hottest month ever recorded in Italy.
6:23I got caught in this. >> It's got to kill fish. No. >> Yeah, it was. I was swimming past fish that had been boiled alive. >> Oh my god. By the way, go back to that picture of him. >> Jacked. >> Jacked, son. >> That was after I saw. >> He looked like the real live Wolverine in that picture. >> It's like if Marvel comics if Wolverine That's what it looked like.
6:45>> You can see the chafing on my shoulder there. But no cellulitis thankfully. >> Thank Thank god. So this is um >> that was Iceland. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's interesting, so >> why did you why do you think you got cellulitis from the water in Scotland, >> they think cuz it was fresh water, >> right?
7:01Yeah. Yes, >> that makes sense. >> The swim around ice just as bad. It was so bad. But equally, you just got salt water, >> right? But it's it's not doesn't have the bacteria content >> is exactly it. Yeah. >> Wow. Of course. But boy, fresh water's nasty. >> Yeah, >> it's nasty. But especially at well it wasn't 96° but if it was imagine that.
7:23>> Yeah. >> Well I think what was interesting is is from then trusting me. So I got rabbi myis uh there. So that's just muscle breakdown basically. >> You got robbed though too? >> Bad. Yeah. Really bad. >> Wait a minute. In Iceland or in Scotland? >> Well certainly in Iceland but but in Italy. Yes. So I had hypothermia and cellulitis in Loch Ness.
7:38Fast forward a year then I got rabbiis and heat stroke in Italy. What's what's so strange though, and this is I'm aware this sounds a little bit twisted, but as a sports scientist and obviously researched the theory and philosophy of all this, whereas actually subjecting my body to it, I was like, "Oh, cool."
7:53You know, this is what hypothermia feels like. And it was the same with rabdomiis. So, so basically sitting here right now just chilling, you know, not been trained or anything like that. Ah, creatine kynise. So, that's an enzyme that's responsible for muscle breakdown. Um, so when it's in your muscles, basically in your in your blood, it says there's been some muscle breakdown.
8:12Sitting here right now, it might be about 80. If we had a hard workout, maybe 300. If you run a marathon, 1,000. If you run an ultramarathon, maybe getting up to 4,000, 5,000. At 10,000, your creatine kynise, they are rushing you to a hospital. At that point, they're really worried about your kidneys that are just working overtime to try to filter it out.
8:32They said, Ross, yours is at 19,000, which is so weird for a sport where you are suspended in water. It's not even weightbearing. You shouldn't have this amount of muscle breakdown. So, I think thankfully my kidneys did an amazing job. Shout out to my kidneys. Filled me out and got me out of the hospital in a few days.
8:50But I think what's so strange is that sort of a career then led me to swim around Iceland where I just knew what rabdomiolyis, hypothermia, cellulitis. I knew what all of those things were. So, as a result, I kind of turned up in Iceland as this kind of bulletproof swimmer who was like, "Oh, it doesn't matter what it's going to throw at me, I'm going to understand."
Iceland swim and bulletproof mindset
9:13>> Oh my god, dude. That is insane. >> And then we swam 1,000 miles around Iceland, which was amazing. >> When you were getting the hypothermia, they say that before people die, they get hot and they want to take their clothes off. Did you have that feeling? >> Exactly that. But I think part of that was the cellulitis as well cuz my skin felt like it was on fire but then equally at the same time like I could just I was shivering with my internal organs.
9:34It's a strange position. >> Did you take into consideration the possibility of cellulitis before you got into that fresh water? Did you know about it? >> No. No. I became an expert afterwards. >> I would want to research like like throw it in perplexity like what are the cons? What's the worst thing that can happen here in the water?
9:52What are the physical dangers I have to worry about with fresh water versus salt water? >> Yeah. >> Is the lock monster real? >> Should have researched that. I think what's weird and I'm glad we started, you know, our catch up like this because I think so often people go, why do you do it? But I think now looking at the anthropology of as humans, the history of as humans across different cultures, different countries, we've always been doing this idea of self-discipline for self-discovery.
Amazon tongue ritual and snake lore
10:17>> Yeah. You know, you look at the the marathon monks of Japan, for instance, um over seven years, over a thousand days, we'll almost do a marathon a day. Um >> those guys in Mexico from the Born to Run book. >> Exactly. Tamar or whatever. Yeah. >> Yeah. They just they run either barefoot or with small homemade shoes they make from rubber tires and [ __ ] Exactly.
10:36>> They make like sandals out of like retreaded tires. >> Exactly. I mean, it's weird as well like even going back further as well. So I ended up doing a documentary ages ago. So 20 years ago now did Iraaska for a week in the Amazon jungle with the Jamanawa tribe. At the end of this week as part of the initiation into manhood um we basically then this is such a random story but we they they kill the snake and you have to bite the tongue out of the snake.
11:03Pass. Hard pass. I'd rather be a boy forever. [ __ ] you. You can't tell me I have to eat a snake's tongue to be a man. Next thing you know, you got to suck a pig's dick. If you don't suck that pig's dick, you're not a real man. >> Says who? Says some [ __ ] guy in the jungle who doesn't even have Starlink.
11:23[ __ ] you. [ __ ] you, buddy. How about you get a pair of Nikes? >> You don't even have shoes, you [ __ ] idiot. >> I was young and impressionable. I didn't question it, so I did it. I bit the tongue, Joe. I bit the tongue. >> I would have bit the tongue, too. I'm just [ __ ] around. I would have definitely bit that tongue, especially if they brought me in and put face paint on me and [ __ ] That was it.
11:40I was caught up in the moment. I was caught up in the moment. I'm like, we all do. >> I got sidetracked when I was looking up people biting tongues of snakes. >> Men get high from cobra bite on tongue. >> It says they got high for at least a month. >> Oh my god. How' you hate your life so much? You sign up to get high for a month by getting bit on the tongue by a cobra.
12:01Like [ __ ] take me away. This job sucks. I just want to be high. >> We've all done things we regret. You know, you >> Yeah, but that's off the charts. Getting bit on the tongue by a cobra. I'd be like, is there a way? Can I just grab the cobra venom and put it on a [ __ ] Q-tip? >> Oh, hold on. Maybe a little better.
12:19It's after the astrologers's nightmare advice, they did it. >> Oh, after astrologers nightmare advice. >> This might be a different story. >> Well, that's a different snake, too, isn't that? >> Performing a ritual. That was probably the what I was doing. Yeah. Telly sniped by bit a man's tongue after an astrologer told him that performing a ritual with the serpent would stop his nightmares.
12:41>> That that is essentially what I did. >> Bro, where's that guy from? Say that say that name. >> Ross, you got it. Go for it. >> Goido Palium. >> That might be accurate. That's pretty goddamn good. That's a real world traveler, ladies and gentlemen. That's how they pronounce things. They roll their Rs and [ __ ] Can you put that back up, please?
12:59That was nuts. >> This is crazy. >> So, this is the thing. So, so he wasn't lying. >> So, this is a different snake. This is the Russell's viper. One of the most common snakes to inflict bites on people in India. During the ritual, the man mimicked the snake's tongue flickering movements, which is when the incredibly deadly snake bit him on the tongue.
13:15Yo. After the snake bit the man, the priest attempted to make a cut in his tongue using a knife, which only worsened the pain. Shocker. I thought that would have fixed everything. The venom from the Russell's Viper usually causes cardiovascular complications, heostatic abnormalities, renal failure, and is renal failure.
13:40What is that? >> Uh, essentially, I think it's the kidneys basically no longer doing their job shutting down. So, internal organs just go. >> So, like Rabbdo, >> very similar. Those who are bitten need treatment immediately. The man was rushed to a nearby medical center. Jesus Christ. Did that guy even get high?
13:54>> This was not This was in the same uh >> surgery was performed probably for the cut on his tongue. Like who the [ __ ] did you let cut your tongue dude? >> Also in India they get high off of this. So it's a sidebyside story there. So this is the same snake or the cobra. >> Different different different loads of people doing it.
14:11So this see this makes me feel better. >> But here's my question. It does make me feel better too. But here's my question. What is the venom? Like can't you just rub it on your tongue? Can't you put it on like a spatula or some [ __ ] >> There you go. >> Oh boy, fella. Why? >> No. No. I I didn't do that.
14:27No, no, no. But he's he's making you do that and then all a sudden you're in front of God and God's explaining the nature of life and the universe. It's a continuous cycle and you've done this a million times before and you're getting better at it, but you're not done. And when you do get done, you will be God.
14:42Bye. >> That's amazing. I wish I'd have had that experience. >> Yeah. And it lasts three days. For three days, you're talking to God and God's coming out of a serpent's tongue. >> That's amazing. But we did that. I think what was I didn't some as was slightly different to to that. So basically after you had basically just you know tongued a snake.
15:06>> They turn to you and they go okay now you have the wisdom of the jungle but you cannot speak for 24 hours. So everyone just like that. Okay. We take a vow of silence. And then for the next 24 hours one of the things that they had us do was climb a tree. So I disappear about 4 meters up this tree holding on like that completely naked.
15:22And they just start smacking the bottom of the tree. And I just get engulfed in fire ants. But can't make a sound. You can't make a sound. And they said, "If you make a sound, the spirit of the snake will haunt you for the rest of your life. But if you don't make a sound, you'll be blessed with the wisdom of the jungle."
15:38>> How old were you? >> 21. Yeah. 21. >> Jesus. So, was that the beginning of all this self torture? >> I think it might have been. This has turned into therapy. >> How many times did you get bit by fire ants? >> Oh, loads. I was >> Did they They get the nuggets. They get the whole thing. They got all the they got all the nuggets.
15:55>> Damn, son. >> But but but I think it's interesting that when I talk about my my swim, >> what Jamie, >> this kills [ __ ] 60,000 people a year in India. >> What? >> Oh my god. >> This you're l I would say you're lucky to be alive clearly, but >> wow. Well, I don't know if it's the same snake. >> This is from the This is the Russell's viper, >> right?
16:17But he didn't get a Russell's viper. He was in the Amazon. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's a different animal. The the Indian thing seems insane though. >> I don't know what's going >> They let it bite their tongue. >> I guess India like in certain parts of it, life is so hard they're like, "Fuck it. I'll do anything."
16:31You know what I mean? Like you see some of this the the scenes online of India and the the pollution in the rivers is so it's so preposterous. You're like, "How did it get this bad?" where like entire rivers are filled with plastic. Like you don't see any water at all. You just see plastic and then you see people just dumping their stuff into that river.
16:52You're like, is there no adults in the room? Like, how the [ __ ] did this happen? There's no other way. There's no other way to do this than to dump all the plastic in the river and everyone's in agreement. >> This is crazy. Like, what the [ __ ] Give me the snake. I'll take that snake. >> That's my way out.
17:09>> Let's go. I want to talk to God. How many times do I have to do this? Forever. This is How many times have I done? Hundreds of thousands. Oh, no. Oh, I thought I was unique. Oh my god, those pictures. >> What do you got, dude? I don't want to show me. Let's go. Oh my tongue. >> Oh, nice. >> Oh god, these [ __ ] they get their tongue rotted out because that's one of the things that venom does.
17:32That's why like when when a rattlesnake bites you, it's so dangerous. It's not just the venom can kill you, but it also rots all the [ __ ] tissue around where the bite is. I saw this poor guy. He got bitten and he had multiple reconstructions of his arm and he documented it all online. And this was quite a while ago.
17:50It was like the early days of the internet, but this guy did this documentation of what his arm looked like from the time he got bit by this rattlesnake to like eight surgeries later. Crazy. Think DraftKings isn't available in your state? Think again. The cage is set and DraftKings keeps the full card at your fingertips in one sports app live in all 50 states.
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19:16>> So this guy's doing it to his tongue. Oh, but I think it's it's weird as well. This is going to sound so strange, but I I I think sometimes that that granted is strange because it's voluntary, but again, this is a weird example, but I was living with the um uh in Olanok in Siberia with the Aveni herders out there.
19:32And I think so often we've become too civilized. we we kind of have civilization over survival, you know, and there's certain things that they do, whether it's um they rely on the reindeer, they they kill them, they have them for their for their milk, butter, make all sorts out of them. But this one particular story, I'm going to apologize in advance now, but to manage the amount of reindeer that they have in these huge herds.
Reindeer herders and animal stories
19:52They basically said to us, "Look, we need to basically castrate some of the male reindeer cuz they're fighting. So, we still need them, but we need to castrate them." I was like, "Okay, look, that's a bit off key, but give me the knife and I I'll do whatever you need to do and they said, "No, no, no, no.
20:04We'll stop you there, Ross." We actually do a form of um semicration. So, we just want to make them slightly more docile so they're not fighting as much. And they >> they do it with the teeth. >> Exactly that. Yeah. >> Yeah. They they grab them from behind and they bite their nuts with their teeth. >> That's exactly it.
20:17Yeah. So, when I was out there, they said, "Would you like to perform it?" I'm not proud of it. >> That's what I did. >> I understand that they have to do that like the way they gel horses, you know, they do that with horses as well. I understand it, but uh I don't want to be a part of that. I won't even do that to my dogs.
20:37Like I went to a veterinarian once and she literally cradled my dog, Johnny Cash. I had this mastiff named John Johnny Cash. He was the best. And this lady cradled his balls. She goes, "What are these? Why are these here?" I go, "Well, those are his testicles, and he was born with them, and that's how his body produces testosterone."
20:56And she's like, "Wouldn't it be responsible to have him neutered?" And I was like, "Why would that be responsible? He's not having unnecessary babies. Why would Why do you want his body to not produce testosterone? Is it because there's a narrative? Is it because you profit off of it? Like what? Fortunately for me, I had a doctor when I first moved to Los Angeles, a veterinarian who was an a I mean, this guy was an animal lover.
21:18I mean, he was like a dog whisperer. I brought my dog in and immediately he was like my dog's best friend. And uh I said, "Should I get him fixed?" He goes, "No, there's no reason to." He goes, "You have a fence. your dog's not going to hop out and make puppies that aren't going to be taken care of. If you're a responsible dog owner, don't get your dog fixed."
21:35I go, "Really?" I thought it was like for their health so they don't get cancer. He goes, "Complete horseshit." He goes, "If dogs get cancer, it's most likely probably from really bad food. >> They're eating shitty food just like people get cancer. You know, not a lot of animals get cancer. It's not a lot of nor Well, >> Tasmanian devils do, >> but they get cancer from biting each other.
21:56They're one of the weirdest cases of cancer. They have a transmissible cancer. >> Like Tasmanian Devil from the cartoon. You ever seen those [ __ ] in real life? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They they have the craziest sounds. >> Anyway, my point is don't cut your nuts off your dog if you're a responsible dog owner cuz they get tired.
22:13Even Huberman, we were talking about Huberman before. He did it to his bulldog and he felt bad so he started giving his bulldog testosterone. >> He said, "Yeah, when I caught up with him." Yeah. Is it true as well? Sharks don't get cancer as well. They've got these crazy immune systems. Yeah. Yeah. Sharks.
22:26>> Also, they're not bones. It's like we're so distant from them. They are so old. >> My god. So I Yeah, I went swimming with great whites of Tasmania. Oh my god. >> Yeah. Yeah. You'll be You'll be aware of this as well. >> Tasmania. So outside Australia. The real ones. The real ones. Those are the OGs.
22:44>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They get big. They stop growing. The females certainly they stop growing in length at a certain point. Then they just get bigger. It's just a submarine with teeth. >> Like New Zealand rugby players. >> Exactly. Exactly like that. Exactly like that. It is nuts. So they they explained to me they basically said they have something called um the ampulive laurenzini.
Great whites and tiger sharks
23:01So they're able to pick up electrical impulses. Is your heart beating quick? Are you are you twitching? Do you look like prey? >> Oh Jesus Christ. >> I was down there with some very experienced divers as well. We dived and we swam with them on the dive when we went down about 40 ft. What was nuts is they immediately knew that I was the weakest link.
23:17They immediately knew that I I was kind of out of my depth when it came to diving. And they all just started swimming towards me like and they're just going, "Ross, Ross, I'm not saying square up to it, but please stop breathing so heavy and acting like prey." So, in that moment, it was just strange how we had a conversation, but it was obviously non-verbal and across species that it was looking at me, came straight up to me.
23:39I sort of tried, not again, I'm not saying I squared up to it, but kind of was like, "Can I help you?" And then it just went, "All right, you're okay." And just >> Well, you didn't panic. >> No. And if you panic that might have been the end. >> Yeah. But just the the way that they like I said describe that ampuli of Laurenini that they are just looking at me.
23:57There is this it's a this apex predator with just like thousands of years and it's downloading data on me and it just knew 10 of us down there and it knew that I was the weakest link. >> Jeez. >> Yeah. Great. >> It's probably so obvious, right? Those other guys are so comfortable in the water. They've done it a million times.
24:14Probably have a very low heart rate down there. It's a novel experience for you. And there's sharks. >> Exactly that. Exactly. >> My good friend Adam Greenree, one of his buddies back home in Australia, got his head bit off by a shark. >> He was he was uh spear fishing >> and he came out of a thing like like a crevice or something in the reef and a shark just took >> didn't even see it coming.
24:36Just >> didn't even see it coming. just popped out and the shark saw something that looked like food that was coming out of the reef >> cuz they're, you know, they're they're in the reefs looking for all sorts of whatever they eat, >> whatever fish [ __ ] up and, you know, or in the wrong place at the wrong time.
24:52They're so damn scary. >> Cuz they're ambush predators as well. >> The tiger sharks of Bahamas similarly swimming with them and so often it's just enough to look at them. As long as they can see your eyes, they go, "Okay, you've seen me." But the amount of times sometimes when we were down there and they're like, "Ross, have your head on a swivel because they were just coming up behind me."
25:11And had I have not turned around 100% I wouldn't be speaking to you now. >> Dude, in Hawaii, they're a real problem, man. They're a real problem for the surfers. >> You know, whenever you hear about someone getting got, it's a tiger shark. >> There's a crazy video we played on here once of this guy. He's uh he's in a kayak and he's out in the middle of the ocean fishing and a tiger shark just slams into his kayak and you see its mouth wide open, his big [ __ ] head and it knocks the kayak sideways.
25:38It's terrifying. >> And he's screaming, "Tiger shark, tiger shark." Just >> here it is. Watch this. Watch this. >> Eat of them. >> Watch this. Oh no, >> bro. [ __ ] that. [ __ ] all that. >> That That was a tiger, was it? >> Yes. [ __ ] all that. Look at this thing. Launch up. Imagine if he was in an inflatable.
26:02>> If he was in an inflatable, that's a wrap. >> You just got your [ __ ] popped by a tiger and now you're floating a mile offshore, whatever the [ __ ] is. >> It's the same like bull sharks as well, though. Bull sharks are just angry. Experts like friends of mine have just said like they will just come over to you with with a white shark.
26:19They're they're curious. Their taste buds are in their throats. They'll come over, nip you, and they're just like, "Oh, sorry. I didn't realize you weren't a seal. The only problem is is you're bleeding out. Whereas a bull shark, they'll just be like, I'm just in a bad mood. I'm just going to come over and just miss.
26:31Yeah, exactly. I talked to this dude in Florida. He said he will not spearfish anymore. He said they live in central like central Florida. He said when you're off the reefs, he said it's so [ __ ] dangerous. He's like the bull sharks are all over the place now. >> Yeah. >> Cuz everybody's like sharks are amazing.
26:50Stop the shark fin soup. [ __ ] serve it up. Okay. Serve up monster dick soup. It should be everywhere. What the [ __ ] are you talking about? You want to eat beautiful things like cows that are sweet and kind. You want to eat ve but you won't eat monsters. You should be eating monsters. Monsters should be on every menu.
27:09If you could get [ __ ] ve scallopini at Italian restaurant, you should be able to get monster dick soup. They should sell that [ __ ] everywhere. They should become our food. [ __ ] them. [ __ ] sharks. But further to that point, I would say then I was completely out of my day. I've never felt more vulnerable in that moment.
27:27The other the only other time I felt vulnerable was um I broke the record for the world's longest non-stop river swim. So it was 510 km uh 60 hours all the way down the Yukon River. We hit these uh the five finger rapids at one point. Uh I basically kind of just got thrown against rocks. Uh cut up pretty bad.
27:44>> So where does this start in the Yukon? >> Yeah. Yes, it was a white horse to Dawson. I hope I've got that the right way round. Yeah. So you're Are you in BC? Like where are you in >> in >> What is Yukon? Is it's Alaska? >> No, no, no, no. Uh Canada. >> Canada, >> but it goes to Alaska. Yeah. If you continue with the Yukon River, it will eventually go to Alaska.
28:02>> So does it come down? What part of Canada does it come through? >> Oh, that's a good question. >> So it's cold as [ __ ] though is my point. >> It's freezing. >> And what time are you going there? >> We went like we went July. >> So the Northwest Territories, that's what they call it, right? >> Yeah.
28:16>> Is that what they call it? >> Yeah. And we just it was it's just the wild wild west out there. And I we we took off like I said we started um basically what was so so strange is for the first 24 hours didn't see much in the way of wildlife. I got thrown against these white water rapids got hit on the rocks and that's why the back of my legs are still cut up now.
Yukon River swim and bears
28:32And then from that the the rules are no one can touch you. You can't touch the boat. So I'm like guys I can't stop. So I just pull my leg out the water like this. And as I do, blood is just dripping out the end of my wets suit. Literally like clockwork. As soon as that happened, bears, wolves, everything.
28:49I said, "What's happening?" And they said, "Ross, they can smell the blood. You're like an ice cream van. You're just advertising yourself to all the wildlife now in the Yukon." >> Really? >> Yeah. Again, now the black bears, fine. As you know, they're they're skittish. And it it was so for me, strange Englishman, first time dealing with bears.
29:07The black bears were looking just like, "What are you? I don't know." a bit skittish. The brown bears. No, >> they look at you very different. >> So, >> they look right through you. >> So different. They're just almost like sitting there just kind of look and we had, like I said, a boat full of people.
29:22We had protection on there and stuff, but it just didn't care. It was It was I was so aware. >> How big was the brown bear? >> I I would have no as an Englishman who has no experience that I've done it just scarily big for me. Yeah, it was big. Yeah. And I just carried on swimming. It was interesting how it was almost like it was looking going, "You're not a salmon, but you're not a bear.
29:41I don't know. I wonder if you're hungry." And I just I carry on. So I turned to the guys. I said, "Guys, am I okay? Am I safe? Shall I keep swimming?" Thankfully, one of the team turned around. It wasn't even a gun. It was like a cannon. And they said, "Ross, don't worry. If it gets too close to you, it'll end up in my freezer."
29:55I was like, "Right, that's what I wanted to hear." We just carried on. >> Yeah, I know. >> You know, um, statistically, you're more likely to get killed by a black bear. Well, no, that's not correct. Statistically, when a black bear attacks you, it's more likely in predation. Whereas, when a brown bear attacks you, it's more likely surprised and it's defending itself.
30:18Or it's a mother with her cubs, which is the most dangerous. >> That's interesting. >> Just like in real life, you [ __ ] with a lady's kids, like you [ __ ] with if you [ __ ] with a grizzly bear and you come near its kids, they they are terrifying. They run at you full clip. Mo most of the times when dudes get attacked and killed, that's that's where you [ __ ] up.
30:39>> You run into a 700 pound mama with her babies and a a a jaw that could just crush your head like a candy bar. >> Like, [ __ ] you. Like, you you can't and you can't run away from her and you can't climb up a tree. You can't do [ __ ] >> And you just zigged when you should have zagged and you got too close to her kids and she doesn't want to take any chances.
31:00So, you just became food. >> Yeah. Why what was what was kind of strange that's kind of it was so weird going from the Yukon and then a year later we did the Iceland swim and and there were some of these old uh sort of modern day Viking chiefs who basically were explaining about the concept of a berserker as well.
31:17Berserker obviously just meaning bear shirt saying that these berserkers these ancient Nordic warriors would so often just try to embody the spirit of the animal and there was even the U of Huffner which are >> that's called bear shirts that's what berserker means >> yeah bear pelt bear shirt basically >> that's what berserker means wow you learn something new every day Jamie >> so they would embody literally the spirit of the animal like I said there was almost from berserkers as well there
Berserkers, Vikings, and Icelandic folklore
31:43were almost like subcategories as well so there were the I hope I'm pronouncing it right Huffner which were the wolf warriors and they were Odin's chosen warriors there. There's stories of them just running into battle, no armor, basically naked, painted, biting down onto their shields as well and howling into the wind.
32:00>> You know, they were also doing mushrooms. >> I know, right? Yeah, that was that was one of the things about those fellas. Berserker comes from the old Norse berserker, most likely meaning bear shirt, a warrior wearing a bear skin. Exact etmology is disputed. An alternative interpretation is bear shirt referring to fighting without armor.
32:19>> Huh. In plain English, it means a frenzied warrior. But I guess you have to be a pretty frenzied warrior to kill a [ __ ] bear back then. >> You know, there was no rifle, son. You had to do it in an intimate fashion. If you're going to kill a brown bear, you're going to kill especially a male. The ones in if you get to anywhere where the salmon live, they get gigantic.
32:37M. >> Which brought me to this terrible idea that I had that I really shouldn't put out there in the universe, but if you wanted to have like the ultimate really [ __ ] dangerous jackass stunt, you would put these guys in salmon suits. >> And make them swim. >> Oh my god. >> Through when those bears are like catching those salmon that are going up the waterfall >> in those rivers where there's like nine ten of them.
33:04>> I would watch it. >> Yeah. Put put the jackass guys. I shouldn't have said it. I shouldn't have said it cuz someone's going to take I could see Steo calling his [ __ ] costume designer right now. >> It's so true. But it was so interesting as well because again swimming around Iceland you hear stories of berserkers.
33:18You know the famous one of Stamford Bridge. >> No, this was an amazing story 1066 I believe when the Norwegians were invading England. Stamford Bridge the Norwegians were retreating and as they were there was just this one lone berserker who just stood on the bridge with a massive ax and was just taking down just soldier after soldier.
33:35just wave after wave and took them down. Eventually, it was somebody who actually went under the bridge and managed to stab him from underneath. But it was known as the Berserker of Stamford Bridge. >> Stab him from under the bridge. That's how they got him. >> Yeah, eventually. But he was just like those guys in Iceland that win those strongman competitions.
33:52Just imagine one of those guys with a battle axe, you know? Imagine like the mountain from Game of Thrones with a giant wood and steel, wood and iron [ __ ] huge shield in front of him and an enormous battle axe that you couldn't even pick up and he's just hacking through people and everyone's watching their friends die.
34:12So, they're all in a panic and he's covered in blood and he's 400 lb. >> It's so true. And I think even as well, I mean, I'm a huge fan of Gunnar Nelson as well. You know, you look at the the history of just Icelandic athletes, warriors, and it's nuts. >> Yeah. Did Gunnar beat Jeff Monson in an absolute contest in Abu Dhabi?
34:29When Gunner w Gunner fought in the UFC, >> I only think he's fought as a welterweight, correct? I think he's only fought at 170. Jeff Monson's like 250. Do you know who Jeff Monson is? >> Yeah, of course. >> He's a muscle. He's like a He's just muscle. His whole [ __ ] body like his his his shoulders start at his the top of his head.
34:53He's [ __ ] enormous. And Monson and the him, they went into an absolute, which is there's no weight classes in grappling. They still allow that. And he beat him, which is [ __ ] insane. That is crazy. But it traces back to their culture as well. This is one thing that I I loved when swimming around Iceland that for instance um you know the story of Odin and Ragnarok, do you know?
35:14Yes. At the end where you know, spoiler alert for those listening, Odin knew he was going to die in Ragnarok that the Norse apocalypse, but ran in anyway. Uh, spoiler alert, he got uh eaten by a giant wolf. But this is what I loved that the Icelandic and Nordic folklore is like, look, you can't control fate.
35:28Everybody believed that you were destined. That's already written for you. But it's how you can control your attitude towards it. And I think that's the thing that I've certainly found from Icelandic culture that it doesn't matter if you are Gunner Nelson going up against 250 lb monster, you will just run into battle anyway.
35:44Yeah. >> You know, you that is your fate, but it's choosing your attitude towards it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, that's very attractive to most people. Most most men, they wish they could be like that. Damn, shows like it's true. >> It's why I mean, how many goddamn Viking shows have there been so many Viking shows and Viking move?
35:59Have you seen the Northmen? That movie? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And quite accurate apparently as well. >> Yeah, I bet it's accurate. Well, except for the supernatural [ __ ] But again, mushrooms. These guys are high as [ __ ] all the time on psilocybin. Who knows what they were saying? And they, you know, they they that's what's interesting is because like people assume that mushrooms make you peaceful.
36:21That's why the whole thing's so confusing >> because they really for most people they make you like more connected to everyone around you. But >> possibly, but it's unproven. The idea is that berserkers ate mushrooms before battle is a popular theory, not an established historical fact. There's no solid archaeological or textual evidence demonstrating drug use.
36:39Okay. So, what is the what is the Oh, it's a e aminita pascaria. But I've heard uh it also be psilocybin. I've heard that being proposed. >> You know, it's in that that Viking show. I think they Can you put that back up, please? I think in the Viking show they they talk about us or it looks like they're eating psilocybin.
36:59It doesn't look like Amanita. Amanita mascara is like really obvious. It's a bright red with white dots on it. It looks like Santa Claus. >> Um the red one with the white spots. Its effects don't nearly explain the battle fury. It can cause delirium, twitching, drowsiness while violent aggression isn't typical.
37:17Yeah, even the delirium, twitching, and drowsiness. The problem with this explanation is it's not really known what ammonita mascaria does. It's not like a a it's not a normal psychedelic, and it also doesn't seem to be as effective as it was at one point in time. So the theory is like Terrence McKenna's theory was that it's it's very variable like a lot of things are like peppers are very variable to in genetics region and maybe even seasonally that you had to like get these mushrooms from
37:49a very specific area. You just like like you want Cuban cigars. There's like some mushrooms in a very specific area that contained a much more potent version of whatever they do to you, >> you know, but it's unclear. The ammonita mascar is like psilocybin is very clear. Like no one eats that and goes, "Oh, I don't see it."
38:08Like you eat the sil but ammonita mascara it varies a lot. I've heard people having insane experiences on it and I myself tried it and it was almost nothing. Did very little. It made you feel weird. >> But you're so right as well that mixed with certainly being out in Iceland when you hear stories of elves, trolls, you know, all these things.
38:27And then when you're out there, like I said, I started the swim. I had a blot ceremony. Basically just means that they blessed my journey as I swam around Iceland. And at the start they were talking about, you know, the different realms of Iceland as well. Um, do you know the story about the the the different guardians of Iceland?
38:42>> What are the different guardians? >> Oh, so basically the story goes that um back in the day there was a a foreign king who wanted to invade uh Iceland. So he sent this sorcerer disguised as a whale to see where they could attack from. Went over to the west coast. There was a huge bull that is representative of strength and power.
38:57Said you can't attack there. Went around to the north coast. Over the north coast, huge eagle that represents vision. Can see for miles. It was like right you can't attack there. East coast uh dragon realm of the dragon. Basically dragons love fast flowing water. So there's loads of waterfalls. The east Icelandic current guns down there.
39:12And then on the south coast there was a massive giant as well. Upon hearing this at the start during the blot ceremony, I was like, "Okay, that's a cool story." You get around the top of Iceland and all of a sudden birds are just coming down, divebombing me, like you get over to the east coast and you see some of the caves and the waterfalls and I'm like, "Oh, for sure."
39:31If you were on mushrooms, I can 100% believe this. Yeah, it's amazing. And even now as well, if you're in Iceland and you see a road that is just like inexplicably curved and goes around, I'm like, "What what's happening there? That that road makes no sense. it should just be going straight. And with a completely straight face, a lot of locals will say, "That's going through the elves sacred land.
39:51We had to build around it." And I'll say, "What do you mean?" And they said, "We were trying to build a road and then inexplicably the machines broke down. The bulldozer broke down. We got some more in." So there's a lot of people out there who still believe in that. And I'm like, "Yeah, on mushrooms.
40:05I can believe it." >> Well, think about Do you know the popular theory? There's a popular theory that consciousness is rendered or rather reality is rendered by consciousness and that consciousness renders reality much like a computer and uh a 3D game engine renders a game. >> So like if you're playing a game like say if you're playing Halo, it doesn't have to reg it doesn't have to render all these maps that you're not in it.
Consciousness, elves, and mushrooms
40:35It's only rendering the map that you're in. Right. >> Right. So as you go into the new maps, then it starts to render it. So there's legitimate physicists that are entertaining the possibility that reality is not concrete and that reality is actually rendered by consciousness. And here's my thought. I don't know if this is accurate.
40:56I don't know if they're right. I don't know if they're wrong. It it's weird and it makes sense, but reality doesn't make sense. Neither does the fact the universe is infinite. So let's put all that aside. And God made us all in his image. Great. Let's put that aside and just stop and think about what is real.
41:10What is consciousness capable of rendering when it has access to science? It has access to all these different university courses you could take on biology and evolution and the nature of the world and what causes the tide and what makes uh thunderstorms happen and all these different things that we know now.
41:31Now imagine if those things didn't exist >> and all you have is just super hyperfocused on nature primitive people who have gods as an explanation for everything and they're on mushrooms. Like if if consciousness really does render reality then well then the elves are real, right? Cuz then cuz if you've done enough mushrooms, you have encountered an entity.
42:02You've encountered something. It doesn't seem like you're making it up. It seems like it's there all the time, but you don't have access to it. And then all a sudden you're in front of it. And if you're in a world where there's no explanations for anything because no one knows how to read, okay? You have a bunch of [ __ ] weird grunts for your language.
42:22>> You have extra consonants and [ __ ] and all your words. like this is and they're warrior people and you're on mushrooms and you're respecting the elf land so much so you move your road around 100%. But I I >> THAT SOUNDS BETTER THAN TODAY. >> NO, I AGREE. I agree. I love what you said there as well cuz I remember at the start of my swim I did a training swim.
42:44I'm toweling down afterwards getting out of my wets suit and this like old old guy, this old fisherman just comes out of nowhere. First thing he says to me under the northern lights I'm looking up. They're amazing. They've just illuminated the entire sky. I'm like, "Wow." Looking up and he just comes over and just whispers in my ear and he just said, "They're probably deciding if you live or die."
43:02And I went, "Oh, excuse." I went, >> "Oh, boy." >> I went, "I'm sorry. I'm >> This [ __ ] keeps swimming for 60 hours at a time. He wants to die. They probably saw right through you. >> This guy's crazy." >> I said, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What did you say?" He goes, "They're probably deciding if you live or die."
43:19I said, "You, please, you're going to have to explain." He said that we believe that in an ancient Nordic folklore that basically the northern lights are the Valkyries, Odin's female warriors, and that is their shimmering shields and their swords as they're riding through the sky looking down at the fallen to see who makes it back to Valhalla to dine with Odin.
43:36And I was again at the time I was like, "Oh, that's a bit off key." >> But then what a funny way to describe it. 112 days later, we swim obviously through the uh through the summer, so there's less chance to see the northern lights because you get 24 hours of daylight. And then right at the very end on the very very very last swim, northern lights come up again.
44:00It was weird. And I am on my back just like if as the Valkyries, if Odin is listening, thank you so much. >> Well, if you again, if you live back then, you would think that your journey is complete. And so at the end of the video game, you get to see some cool montage of scenes and and beautiful sites.
44:21And I mean, that's what happens in a movie. Like this is the end of the movie. >> You did it. That's what's weird about reality. Like this idea that consciousness is rendering reality. >> Again, I really don't understand it. I don't know if it's I don't even know if it makes sense. >> Oh, there we go.
44:36Yeah. >> In Iceland, respect the elves or else. Yeah, I'm respecting the [ __ ] out of them elves. Okay. >> This rock, they won't move. >> I'm not touching that rock. >> The elves don't want it moved. >> Yeah, I think they're real, dude. >> 100%. >> I think they're real. I think you just can't see them normally.
44:53>> Uh, it said news crews tried to film the rock and every time they tried to film it like it wouldn't record something like that. >> Good. [ __ ] you. [ __ ] you. Fake news. Fake news. Don't film the rock. Yeah. The real news is there's [ __ ] elves are real. They moved this. They moved the road. True.
45:11Even TV crews say their cameras failed to record anything when pointed at the rock. >> I bet I go over there and record the [ __ ] out of it with my iPhone. [ __ ] you. How is there a picture of it? [ __ ] off. You got a guy working for you that's an [ __ ] Doesn't know how to use the He's probably got his tongue bit by a cobra two days ago.
45:27The guy's tripping balls. >> [ __ ] off. >> Yeah. Well, that not that that might have been a different rock. >> It's just fun. It's look fun. Like whoever the guy was saying they're deciding whether you live or die, he's having fun. >> Oh, it's a good time. Who is that guy? It was just an old fisherman.
45:42>> Yeah, that old fisherman was [ __ ] with this cocky jacked British guy. He's looking at you like, "Fuck you in your six-pack. The elves are going to kill you." >> Odin, you know [ __ ] with you. That guy was [ __ ] with you 100%. >> Odin describes He disguises himself as an old man. >> Or he's an [ __ ] He's an old fisherman.
45:59He's [ __ ] drunk every night. He's tired of life. He sees his beautiful young Englishman with a [ __ ] manly beard and a six-pack just looking jacked, ready to swim for days. He's like, "Fuck you. The elves are going to kill you." >> That's he wanted you to be nervous. He's like, "This [ __ ] dork. [ __ ] him."
46:17>> 80%. >> In a survey, 80 over 80% of the respondents refused to deny the existence of elves. >> Wow. >> And 8% were certain they existed. >> Well, those guys are dangerous. The 80% were certain. Those are dangerous people. Those are religious fanatics. Put that back up, please. Those guys, they can't be trusted.
46:32How the [ __ ] do you know? It's all about respect for nature, which is something Icelanders know is very much alive. I agree with that. Said gunnel. What a what an Iceland name. Guy's name is Gunnel. >> But when your house can be destroyed by an earthquake, when you could be blown over by the wind, when boiling water from your taps tells you there's lava not far beneath your feet, then you don't mess with nature.
46:54Holy [ __ ] They get boiling water from their taps sometimes. >> Yeah. >> What the [ __ ] man? >> Can you imagine going to sleep? You know that there's so much lava underneath your house that water is boiling coming out of your tap. You're like, "Good night." >> No deal. >> I wonder what's on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
47:16You [ __ ] sitting there staring at Kim Kardashian and No Way. Caitlyn Jenner is on TV. Oh, they're all together again. All this [ __ ] lava under your feet. But that's Icelandic people. They're just hard as nails. I said this. It's like it's just a country that's trying to kill you. When we were there actually at the very end.
47:37So I I basically I made it back by 3 days for the birth of my first child. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you so much. That's awesome. >> Oh yeah. >> That's a life changer, huh? >> It was amazing. Yeah, it was. But but at the end, for instance, so so my girlfriend, she's amazing. We've been together for 13 years.
Fatherhood and the Iceland finish
47:51And the the basically the University of Iceland said, "Look, if you can collect Edna samples, environmental DNA samples around the coast of Iceland, we can track biodiversity in a level of detail we've never seen before." So we had them on board, we had sponsors on board, we had a boat on board, >> and then we found out we were pregnant.
48:07So I was like, "Oh." >> So you know, >> in America, we frown upon that we are pregnant. >> Oh, really? We frowned upon that. >> She's pregnant. >> Yeah, she's pregnant. You're definitely not pregnant. >> You definitely are pregnant. She's pregnant. >> And when I say in America, I mean me. I frown upon that kind of talk.
48:24>> She's pregnant. >> Yeah, >> she uh she's amazing. She just said, "Look, you know, go, but you need to make it back." So, we had that hard >> that's a good thing to say. You need to live. >> You need to survive. >> You're about to have a baby. Don't swim for 60 days, you [ __ ] [ __ ] You have responsibilities.
48:41>> Oh, I know. But I think, and I've heard you talk about, you know, fatherhood and stuff, it it invoked something in me, a level of motivation that I've never experienced before. It was just at the end. So we got caught in uh Hurricane Erin was coming through the Atlantic. So that was over the east coast.
48:54We had a 100 miles to finish. And in Grinder, there was a volcano going off that had poisonous gas. So we couldn't get too close to that as well. Inhale that you're dead. And then here there was one of Europe's largest glaciers that just sent shards of ice as big as this table. And at night, you just couldn't see it.
49:09You're just hitting them. >> Oh my god. >> The team was like, "Look, Ross, I'm so sorry. We're going to be here for two weeks." And I was like, "No, no, no. I'm I'm so sorry. I need I need to get back." You know, and it was that that form of motivation at the end just knowing you had that hard deadline that I just I jellyfish coming off my face, tongue falling off from saltwater exposure.
49:28It didn't matter. I was like, I'm not not being back for the birth of my son. And I made it back, like I said, by 3 days. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It got But it got nuts. >> Well, it's very it's a very primal feeling. It it ignites something in you that does not exist in people that don't have children. I don't think I don't think I mean I I am very careful about this.
49:46I do not think you have to have children. I don't like to shame people that don't want to have kids. I don't like shame people people who never had kids. I don't think it's I think you can be a wonderful person and contribute to the world without children. >> But I could just say for me it changed who I am.
50:01It changed it changed me in a in a very profound way. And I always bring up this Dave Chappelle quote, so I apologize to people who've heard it before, but he said something very profound once in the parking lot of the comedy store. He said, "Not only did having children change the amount of love that I have," he goes, "it changed my capacity for love."
50:21>> I love that. >> Yeah. And it did that for me. And it also did for me this other very profound thing where it made me stop looking at people as a static thing. When I met if I met a guy and he's 40 and he's an [ __ ] I'm like, "Fuck that guy. He's a [ __ ] asshole." I don't think that way anymore. Now, I mean, sometimes I do.
50:40is if I'm short-tempered, if I'm in a bad mood, if I'm t, you know, I'm in a rush, under stress, I can have slips, I'm not perfect at this, but when I'm at peace, I look at that guy as a baby. That's a baby. That's someone's little boy. And [ __ ] didn't go well for him. There was a series of either bad decisions or bad experiences or bad parenting or bad judgment or bad luck.
51:04And now here he is, just a [ __ ] mess. And that's why I have a hard time seeing homeless people. It it it genuinely bothers me. I never see homeless people and I'm I go [ __ ] that guy. I will go [ __ ] that guy if they're like getting close to my kids and they're being aggressive and they're schizophrenic.
51:20>> But most of the time I think that that was somebody's baby. That's somebody's baby. >> I'm exactly the same. It completely changes. It changes your like biochemistry. I was talking to Huberman about this and I I really hormonally I felt I was I was always a bit selfish, a bit single-minded in my swims and stuff.
51:36As soon as he arrived, I was like that that's it. Everything changes. It was crazy. I I I think as well it was it was strange for me because I I lost my dad as well four years ago and then I was becoming a dad myself. So the Iceland swim sort of existed in this strange world between the two. Um and that was like really sort of big for me.
Father, legacy, and pursuing hardship
51:50I I even said you know in my new book I talk about how it's it's kind of this idea that um the swim was almost a tribute to everything that my dad had taught me but equally a letter to my future son you know and I hope that they look at that and go okay yeah all the values and everything that I was taught.
52:06Well, just living the way you live, just by example would be an insane role model for your kid. I mean, you're a very unusual person. Your your will is very odd. You know, the your the ability to do those kind of things I respect greatly. I don't want to do it. I think it's [ __ ] but I respect I respect it greatly.
52:27You know, I'm good friends with Cameron Haynes, and you know, he runs a lot of these like really insane 200, 300 mile races >> and uh I respect it. I don't think it's good for you. I But I get what he's doing. He's trying to find out where his breaking point is. You know, he's trying to push himself to his breaking point.
52:44>> That is exactly >> And I admire that greatly cuz that is a noble quest. Whether or not you think it's smart, I don't I don't think it's smart, but but I don't want to do it. But it is a noble quest. It is a an absolutely noble quest. And he is different than me. We are all different. And everyone has this thing in their head that they need to sort out.
53:04And sometimes the way you sort it out is by doing something that's [ __ ] insanely hard to find out who you really are. >> I think that's >> and I think I like to do it a little bit every day. That's my method. My method is do a little bit every day. When I say a little bit, like couple hours, that's what I like.
53:20Couple hours of torture every day. Find out who I am. And when I take a few days off, I get nervous. I get confused. Who am I? I don't know. I don't know if I could do this anymore. You know what I mean? You know those feelings? I'm sure you even get those as many times if you if you take a few weeks off working out >> and you start working out again.
53:36You're like, "Oh my god, am I really going to put myself through this again?" >> It's so true, >> right? Am I really going to go swim for 6 days again? What the [ __ ] is wrong with me? >> You know, so true. But I was chatting to Hubman about this cuz I I was just I'm so aware that my dopamine system probably works a little bit differently, you know, in that someone says, "Oh, let's go do a you know, 24-hour swim."
53:53I go and then they go, "Oh, 3 days past bears." I'm like, "Okay, hold my beer. I'm in. And I think that's what's so weird. But but and I know you and Hoopman spoke about with your anterior midsulate cortex. And that's the only way that I can actually for me it was so interesting chatting to to him because in my head when your tongue is falling off or or you know you're just chafing cellulitis.
Grit, quit, and strategy under pain
54:18I I think of it like weighing scales and you kind of got grit or quit pain and purpose. And at any point the anterior midsulate cortex that part of your brain is just weighing them up. And for me, you just need as much pain as it is, you just need to outweigh it with enough purpose. >> You do that, you'll continue.
54:34If not, and I think it's so I mean, I love the UFC. There are certain fighters who if you did a scan, 100% their anterior mids singular cortex would just be like this. >> 100%. This episode is brought to you by Visible. As fall hits, we enter another season of change. Time to shift gears, drop the dead weight, and upgrade the wardrobe for the drop in temperature.
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55:22All the perks of big wireless for half the cost. Switch today at visible.com. The Visible plan starts at just $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code Rogan. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. I was going to bring this up earlier.
55:46One of the fighters got pulled from a card a few years back. I can't remember when, but it was because of uh exactly what you were talking about like creatine levels in his blood. And I was like, "What?" I was confused at the time. I didn't know like what that meant. I was like, "What? Creatine? What does that mean?
56:01Took too much creatine?" Like, "No, his body is so broken down from training. It's not safe for him to fight." Like, how's that possible? Like, how does somebody show up at the actual fight day blown out? Junior Dos Santos, fighting is worth the health risk because it's everything to me. Was it Junior?
56:17>> Wow. >> He got pulled from a fight. >> It said CK down here. >> Yeah. So I think there you go. Rabdomyis breaking down. Yeah. >> Muscle fiber treatable. >> Oh, but I don't think that he got pulled from the fight. I think this is just what happened to him in that fight. So that fight >> was I believe.
56:38>> So he had two fights with well he had three fights with Kane Velasquez. Kane Velasquez has the greatest cardio of any heavyweight that ever lived. They used to call him Cardio Kane. It was a freaky gift that he had. And it was also his understanding of management of cardio was incredible. He never threw anything full blast.
56:56Everything was like 60 70% but with perfect technique and he would just never get tired. Like never get tired. And the first fight Junior Dos Santos caught him with a big right hand and knocked him out. It was on Fox. It was a big deal. Then they have this rematch. In the rematch, Kane's healthy. The first fight he went into with a blown out knee and his knee wrapped up.
57:16He [ __ ] up his meniscus like in training. And then in the second fight, he's fully healthy and he mauls Junior dos San Hantos and it's a war. It's a five round crazy war where it looks like they're both gonna well it looks like Junior's gonna die. It looks like he's going to die and then he does it again in the second fight.
57:31They have a third fight rather second rematch. The second rematch the same same sort of result. Kane just mauls him. Like Kane was just Kane was on a completely different level to everybody else when it came to cardio. guys would get this thousand yard stare in the second round like I can't do this for five rounds.
57:47I can't I can't keep this guy off me. It's impossible. >> And so if he got rabbedo from that fight, I would not be surprised though. I I bet a lot of fighters get rabbedo after the fights >> cuz some of those fights they're on death's [ __ ] door. They're on death's door. >> I think one of the worst got to be Lola McDonald, right?
58:08>> Oh my god. Oh my god. one of the one of the craziest life or death fights in the history of the sport. >> And >> and they stared each other down in the final round. >> I know. They're staring each other down and blood is pouring out of both of their faces. Robbie's lip is split halfway open. The whole thing was not the end of it.
58:27When I was interviewing him, half of his lip is like open like a slice of pie. >> It's [ __ ] insane. And he's saying how he's never going to quit. and I'm going to keep coming and keep coming and I'm never going to stop. And I was like, "Holy shit." This guy just got through five rounds of the most violent [ __ ] ever.
58:45Look at the two of them just staring each other down. >> It was unbelievable. >> Like, >> yeah. >> Life or death. Like they got they got to to the death store and it Rory when he collapsed, it's like his nose had been shattered and the pain was just overwhelmed his brain. His body shut off and he just collapsed.
59:03He couldn't couldn't take it anymore. It was crazy, too. Yeah. When they're staring at each other before the final round like [ __ ] >> Is that the worst? >> Look at Robbie screaming in the crowd with his arms up. >> So, what I think is going on there, there's a few I think there's like stress induced analesia.
59:18The way that like an injured animal will bite off its arm to get out of a trap that must be going on. So, just pain suppression, norepinephrine, everything. >> There's a there's also some [ __ ] genetics. Robbie Law's got some caveman jeans, son. >> Pardon me. He's got some warrior jeans. That dude, that's in his DNA.
59:37I've been watching that kid fight since he was 20 years old. He's a [ __ ] savage. Like a savage to the core. One of the greatest knockouts in the history of the sport happened when Robbie was fighting up a division. So he he was fighting this guy Melvin Manhof. And Melvin Manhof is a kickboxer, a very high level kickboxer who came out of Mike's gym in Amsterdam.
1:00:01Mike's gym in Amsterdam is legendary. produced Bhari. Uh there's like a a a series of like wicked kickboxers came out of Mike's gym and Melvin Manov sort of epitomized that style. They were hyper aggressive and Melvin is built like you. Like look at him. >> Oh my god. >> So Melvin in this fight, Melvin is chewing up Robbiey's legs.
1:00:22He keeps leg kicking them. I mean he's punishing his legs. Melvin was so fast and so powerful. and they get in the exchange and boom, Robbie hits him with one punch and knocks him out. If you and he's just out cold like look at they zoom in on his face. He's just he's in the shadow realm right now. But if you go to earlier in the fight like what Melvin was doing to him, it was a crazy comeback.
1:00:45Like go earlier in the fight. Melvin is all over him. I mean he's so dangerous and so fast. Like Melvin was putting him in really bad spots. He kept rocking him. And when you talk about like highlevel kickboxers, Melvin was elite. I mean, like perfect technique, ridiculous power and athleticism and just a warrior spirit just attack you from the he would come out for his fights with a dog collar on.
1:01:12But he had like a spike dog collar and be dancing getting ready for his fights. Terrifying human being. >> He's he's scary. I think going back to the Berserker, um, there's such a parallel between him and Alex Pereira, you know, that idea like with the Jaguar style, you know, embodying the spirit of an animal.
1:01:29I mean, I don't know about Melvin, I would be terrified if I if I was in the cage and I saw Pereira walking out. >> Well, do you know the the team, the Fighting Nerds, >> of course. Yeah. So, the head dude, uh, I can't I'm blanking on his name, but I was just watching this video about, uh, uh, Carlos Prates, who is one of my all-time favorites right now in in the UFC in the welterweight division.
1:01:49And one of the things they were talking about is how he has his fighters mimic animals >> and he studies animals and animals fighting to the death online, and that it's all about controlling the space. Like you they they gave an example of the mongoose and the cobra. And it's not that the mongoose is faster than the cobra or more deadly than the cobra.
1:02:12It's the mongoose is a master of controlling space. The mongoose is like fainting. Like as he's coming into the cobra he's like moving in a little bit. Yeah. Pablo. Pablo is a brilliant guy and he's the one I mean they really are nerds. Like they really do like data analytics and they study all moves that work and moves that don't work and what happens at what percentage of time.
1:02:31like he's got a very datadriven approach to MMA training, but also like super open-minded cuz he's like considering animal movements. >> That's amazing. >> Yeah. And the things that he was talking about was monguses and cobras. And they had this example and it shows like these monguses. They're essentially like juking with the cobra.
1:02:51They're fainting. They're trying to get the cobra to react and they move back when the cobra reacts and they sl but they're they're trying to draw this cobra in and get a sense of what the cobra's distance is. >> That's crazy. >> And all of his fighters, particularly Carlos, is a master at controlling distance.
1:03:08He's always pressing forward and then when you come at him, he slides away and he's pressing forward and it's always you're always in danger. You're constantly in danger. So, you're always like on the defensive and you're trying to get some offense and it doesn't work and then you're back on the defense.
1:03:22Masterful. >> That's fascinating. Yeah. >> I think it's almost lost. It was the 17th century writer, English writer, wasn't it? Samuel Johnson, >> who said, "Become a beast to get rid of the pain of being a man." >> And I think so often we've lost that. Certainly for me when swimming in many ways, I was very much inspired by the shark.
1:03:40You know, when I was swimming, very much like the berserker, the bear. And I think some of the best athletes, like I said, I love Pereira and his jaguar style, you know, both feet on the floor, so constantly generating power. But yeah, Samuel Johnson, become a beast to get rid of the pain of being a man.
1:03:54Love that quote. >> That's a great quote and very applicable definitely. But for most people, like the the journey, the path is just too daunting. >> Just the idea of it is just, oh, what am I going to do? >> Want to start out a beginner and just get humiliated all the time. [ __ ] that. It's just like doesn't seem fun at all, you know?
Fighters, mind games, and cardio
1:04:14And they don't want to do it. And so then they'll dismiss it and talk and then it becomes toxic masculinity which is adorable. >> That was adorable. >> I think I think also what's what I found so interesting is again I was trying to h about this but the the different parts of the brain. So your vententral striatum the part of the brain that's almost um involved in expectation reward and reality.
1:04:35So so to use a fighting example when things are going well for a fighter what's happening the vententral strumm is going okay I've done this and that and I'm winning. It's prime Conor McGregor. It's prime Anderson Silva, it's modern-day Ilia Tapura. You know that everything's going well. But as soon as that goes wrong, something goes wrong, all of a sudden dopamine plummets, vententral stratum goes, "Okay, that behavior is now not working."
1:05:00And I think it's been so interesting seeing fighters. The same with it when when I'm swimming, I can get caught in a countercurren. There's been times where I swim and they go, "Ross, you got to swim for 4 hours to swim out of this massive whirlpool." I swim for 4 hours, head down, head down like that.
1:05:14My alarm goes off. I look at my watch. I go, "Guys, how far have we swam?" And they go, "Ross, you you've been swimming on the same spot. You've not moved. You just been swimming on the same spot for four hours." And I think it's interesting that that it's not just losing, it's actually like the brain, the biochemistry just implodes.
1:05:28And I think you kind of saw that. Like I said, I think >> what happened in your mind when you found out you were in the same spot for 4 hours. >> I mean, it's like I said, it's not just a loss understanding the neuroscience of it. basically the vententral stratitum going this isn't working dopamine is no longer released all of a sudden it is just like a dark biochemical cloud and when you understand that you can start to try to process out of it >> how'd you get out of that >> I'm glad you asked there's another part
1:05:57of the brain as well called the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and that's involved in strategy so essentially when you are completely losing vententral stratum goes this isn't working so when I'm swimming tongue's falling off neck chafing cellulitis vententral central strumm this is not working and then you've got two options again this is an oversimplification but in my head this is how I basically um map it out anterior mids singular cortex grit or quit pain and purpose discipline you
1:06:23just do it because you said you were going to do it you just grit your teeth and get through it or dorsolateral prefrontal cortex over here which is more strategy and sometimes you can just completely reframe what you're doing you can change technique and everything as well when you're swimming but sometimes just reframing that suffering you know a great man said be the hero of your movie and I think um looking at the hero's journey as well um I think that's so interesting where Joseph Campbell talks
1:06:48about that idea of just kind of the the hero slaying your dragon innermost cave battling. So I think sometimes that strategy is just reframing your suffering when you're constantly losing >> and how long did it take you to get out of that whirlpool? >> I think we were we were there for most of that day.
1:07:04most of that day and then with the tide because basically over the top of Iceland it's like a giant bay so you get counterurrens whirlpools and eventually with everything that's happening you'll eventually be able to swim out of it >> eventually. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But you can >> Yeah. >> Jamie's dead
1:07:25in me. >> I'm dead too, [ __ ] I'm dead too, [ __ ] >> How How much can you swim? Can you swim good? >> Yeah. >> Come on. I don't I mean what's What do you mean? You mean like in a [ __ ] whirlpool in the middle of the ocean, dog? It's 20° out. >> I could probably hand I don't know how strong of an under.
1:07:41I've never been. >> I'd be dead in 15 minutes. In 15 minutes, I'm underwater >> in the ocean. I could probably save someone. >> You could save someone >> depending on the waves. >> J, you know who saved somebody? Greg Simmons. >> Did you ever hear that story? Didn't he tell it on the podcast? >> Yeah.
1:07:55>> I wouldn't go out though. I wouldn't test my >> Some lady was on vacation. Some lady was drowning. He jumped in the water and rescued her. >> Oh, >> yeah. Yeah. She was offshore and I guess the riptide caught her >> and uh Greg risked his [ __ ] life. Went out there and grabbed her and helped her.
1:08:12>> What a legend. >> Legend. I was like, "Damn, dude." I'm like, "Did you think at one point?" Because his family was there, too. He's on vacation. I was like, "Do you think that maybe you wouldn't be able to make it back? Did you worry about that?" He's like, "Yeah, >> cuz it's crazy. People don't understand."
1:08:25Like certainly on >> drowning people are dangerous. >> Yeah. because they'll hold on to you and you won't be able to like get them to relax >> and then they won't let go of you and then you're both drowning. >> Exactly. It's in ICE on the south coast. It's called Rainers Foda. It's considered like literally one of the most dangerous beaches in the world and they have these sneaker waves that just come from nowhere and we were there and I think it was a family.
1:08:46I think it was a little girl who lost her life. But witnessing it as well, there were so many tourists who thought it was fun to run up as close as they could and as the waves crash over, they get a selfie and they run. And I was like, I don't I don't want to be like, oh, here we go. What the [ __ ] dude?
1:09:00That's like some [ __ ] right out of Lord of the Rings. Look at that. That doesn't even look real. >> That looks like Mordor. >> The sneaker waves from there. They will come from nowhere and they would just absolutely Yeah. >> [ __ ] you. >> There you see the tourists there. >> I don't go anywhere near that [ __ ] [ __ ] you.
1:09:15>> Oh, there you go. Yeah. So, you would have tourists when we were there and I felt I was so conflicted cuz I was I was like, look, I don't want to be a killjoy or anything. There's people taking pictures while sitting on those rocks and then you just saw massive waves. We left and then an hour later we saw helicopters overhead.
1:09:31We heard ambulances and we we knew the worst. >> Yeah, you can die. You can die doing that. That is a guy who was a WWE wrestler died a few years ago. >> He got caught in a a rip a rip tide, right? Is that what happened to him? >> That's what I was thinking of was I was saying like I think that was like on Venice Beach or Santa Monica.
1:09:48>> I think you're right. I think it was in Venice. Yeah, man. It's [ __ ] terrifying. If you don't know how to swim, the ocean is a monster, man. >> Oh, yeah. Even on on certain parts as well, when you get wind over tide, that's the worst. The tides going one way, wind's going the other, and we get what's called the overfalls.
1:10:00And swimming over there, it was nuts. There's the waves. They're not rolling anymore. They're detonating. That's the only way I can describe it. It's just going off around you. And when you're swimming in there as well, what's happening underneath is all the jellyfish are just getting smashed on the rocks.
1:10:15So, as you're swimming, jellyfish tentacles are literally going up your nose, in your ear. You're inhaling them as well. >> Oh, great. That's got to be good for you. >> Jellyfish can [ __ ] you up, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They'll sting the [ __ ] out of you, especially the wrong ones. >> The ones in Iceland are all right, but I think after you take maybe like five or six, they start attacking your lymph nodes.
1:10:36You start scratching under your armpits or over your groin. My youngest daughter got u a little bit just a touch from a jellyfish in Costa Rica >> and oh my god it was horrible. She was in agony. It was terrible. And they keep like stuff on the beach that you pour on them cuz it happens so often >> and people get zapped by jelly.
1:10:52It's not they're not dangerous. They don't kill you but they [ __ ] hurt like hell. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Dude, the the ocean itself is just like the like what's interesting about all those people in that photograph that's in that video that are watching and standing. Isn't it fascinating how people are drawn to that abyss?
1:11:09They're drawn to the the majesty of that water, just the vastness of it. There's something about that that I think is really good for people. I I think it's one of the reason why people like going to the ocean and sitting on the beach. I think there's something about that that just calms people the [ __ ] down because it puts you into perspective.
1:11:28It's like, "Hey, [ __ ] look out at all that [ __ ] water, okay? You can't live in any of that." All right? You are so nothing. And that's why I think beach towns are so chill. >> Like beach towns are not like like why is uh downtown Manhattan so [ __ ] you. Everybody's like hyped up. >> It's because they're surrounded by people created [ __ ] If you you're just standing there staring at the vastness of the ocean.
1:11:55You're like, "All right, relax." And then at night time you see the stars, too. You see the [ __ ] Milky Way and then there's the ocean. Like, all right, this is clearly I'm not that important. >> 100%. >> I'm barely anything. >> 100%. And like we said with Iceland with some mushrooms under the northern light, >> especially on the last day of your swim.
1:12:12It's like the universe letting you know you did it. You you completed your journey. [ __ ] bananas, man. >> This is exactly it. But I love what you said there as well. I mean, certainly on the swim, it was so interesting. Sometime I I tried to swim with gratitude as much as I can. you know, swim with a smile and you're just grateful to be there because I I love David Gogggins and I've tried his form of motivation where it's, you know, man up, grit your teeth, get through this.
1:12:39But for for me personally, after, you know, a 100 days, I can't keep calling myself a [ __ ] I'm just like, oh, have a day off. >> Listen, David is a very unique character. >> I don't know anybody like him, and I don't recommend it. I don't recommend you becoming him. Good [ __ ] luck. You have to have that demon inside of you like that guy does.
1:12:58He's a sweetheart of a guy though. I love him to death. >> But that dude, that fire ain't going out. >> He's 50 years old. That fire is not going out. He does things where people aren't watching. That's what's crazy about David. It's not all these like things where people get to see. It's not No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
1:13:15He calls it being in the lab. Like every day he's doing it. Like, dude, every day he's out there running 20 miles. He runs with a weight vest on. He he gets in from that. He does weights. He does chin-ups and push-ups. Like, it's not it doesn't stop. It doesn't end. >> And then the next day, it's another thing.
1:13:33It's another [ __ ] insane thing. And it never ends. And no one's watching. >> No one's watching. It's not being documented. He's he's just doing it. And then every now and then, he'll go out and run some [ __ ] 200 mile race and everybody's like, "What the [ __ ] man?" Like, what are And he's also got no knees.
1:13:48His knees are completely blown apart. He's got bone on bone on both of his [ __ ] knees. He's had multiple operations where they had to actually his bone had grown so [ __ ] up that they had to chop his [ __ ] leg in half and pull it down so they could make it level because the the bone it's it's like called what is it called?
1:14:07Wolf syndrome or some [ __ ] where you're they grind against each other. So your body tries to protect itself by building extra bone and when it builds it it [ __ ] up the geometry of the knees. They don't work correctly. So then you're running like bone on bone with [ __ ] up geometry and you get back pain, all kinds of.
1:14:23So he had his [ __ ] knee sawed off and and shifted downward and then screwed into place and you know what he did? He just got on a [ __ ] bicycle and he started using a bicycle then and so he's [ __ ] indoor cycling all day for five six hours. >> I had something actually. Yeah, subocchocchromial decompression with my shoulder, which um so often weightlifterss will get it, but they said we've never really seen it in a swimmer, but it was exactly the same.
1:14:47I needed to have the the bone shaved down to make room again. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah, that was that the left shoulder. The right's always been fine, though. >> So, when they shaved down the bone, did they have to Is your cartilage okay or >> Yeah, cartilage was fine. And it was, you know, and just the bone keyhole.
1:15:03Yeah, just there. Yeah, just went in, shaved down the bone. And I was >> How much bone did they shave down? >> A good amount. Yeah. And after >> Did you get like a little cup of it to save? I should have asked, shouldn't I? >> Should save that. >> But I I love what you said there as well because I just think Gogggins taps into something that that so few people want to almost address.
1:15:17Carl Young talked about it with your shadow self. You know, that part of your psyche that you don't want to reveal to the world. Are you aggressive, jealous, hyper competitive? Um, again, it was it was nature, wasn't it? Whoever fights monsters should see to it that they too don't become a monster. If you stare into the abyss too long, the abyss will stare back into you.
1:15:35>> Yeah. And I think that's what Gogins does brilliantly or Jordan Peterson as well. You know, the the problem isn't having a monster, it's making sure you can't put it back in the cage. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's what Gogggins does so well. And I did take inspiration from that on certain swims as well where uh you know, reading a few comments online, people go, "He's never going to do this swim.
1:15:54He's too big to be a swimmer. This is going to fail badly." >> That is the weird thing about you though, like most endurance athletes aren't that heavily muscled. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? That is very odd when I've show pictures of you to my friends and I like I talk about people who have done crazy [ __ ] and I've detailed some of the insane things you've done, some of the insane swims and they're like, "How is he doing that when it's that jacked?"
1:16:14I'm like, "That is weird, right?" Yeah. I think there's a few different things to unpack. So, so the first is you just need bulk. So, going back to biomimicry, I we're talking about that a lot now, but I think what's so interesting is I want to become more whalike. You know, I I think absolutely you look at a pool swimmer, they are poetic in the water.
1:16:31They're amazing. They look like dolphins, a makeo shark. That would be useless for me when caught in an arctic storm. So, I need >> strength, >> strength and bulk. Yeah, muscle mass being thermic. So, I can generate heat with every single movement. Um, but equally on top of that, I think it's also really interesting that through my strength training, it's called met mechano transduction just basically means people think of strength training as improving the the strength of the
1:16:54muscles, but it's connective tissue, ligaments and tendons that respond to that mechanical stimuli. So, for me, when swimming, I need the connective tissue. My my the tendons in my rotator cuff need to be bulletproof because that's what's going to give up. This this swim isn't going to stop because of my V2 or lactic threshold.
Strength reserve and swimming performance
1:17:11It's going to stop because something tears, right? >> So, that's why being like this, I'm I'm not as fast, but I sacrifice that for being more physically robust. >> That makes sense. >> And I think finally, this is something as well which is really interesting at the moment. So, I'm a huge fan of Cam Makavoy, the 50 m world record holder for freestyle, and he's just rewritten the rule book on swimming.
1:17:31Basically, there's a direct correlation between your one rep max on pull-ups and your swim sprint speed. And he's really >> Yeah. Really real strong correlation. So, he's now basically doing one rep max with pull-ups with 80, 90 kilos and just speed reps as well, Joe. Just ripping. And you see what he's done.
1:17:50He's He's barely swimming in terms of >> 90 kilos. >> Yeah, he's an absolute savage. >> Isn't that like 185 lbs or some [ __ ] What is that? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's on his Instagram recently did it with 80. He's he's an absolute spe. >> And how many how many chin-ups is he doing that way? >> I think he was doing about three.
1:18:06He's an absolute specimen. Yeah. And watch. So that's that's swimming. That's that's sprinting. So obviously that's that's not endurance. But taking inspiration from that, you have what's called your strength reserve. So, strength reserve just basically means if you are capable of doing a pull-up with 100 kilos, that means your own body weight is a basically a smaller percentage of what you're capable of.
1:18:28Here we go. >> Is that him? There he goes. >> Uh 80 kilos. >> That's insane. And what is it? What is it, Jamie? Did we figure out what that is? >> I mean, I'll ask my phone. >> It's 2.2. So, it's like 176, I think. >> What is 80 kg in pounds? >> But look how >> Yeah, 176. That's crazy. >> He's amazing.
1:18:50>> And he's completely rewritten the rule books when it comes to swims. Like I said, 50 um world record holder at the moment. Oh, >> that's crazy. He's doing that. >> Three sets of five with 50 kg. And so this is just to generate strength for the sprinting. >> Exactly. That you think about it, if your one rep max on pull-ups is so good, every single stroke is almost like a unilateral, a single lit limb pull down.
1:19:13So he's just ripping through the water like that. But what's been really interesting is traditionally you used to just swim for miles and miles. It was almost we call it like uh garbage yardage that you just swimming swimming swimming. He was swimming sometimes in his sets like 800 m which is my warm up but it was just all flat out.
1:19:29So he's revolutionized swimming. So that's sprinting. But what I taken from it, like I said, your strength reserve, basically, if you're capable of a huge one rep max on pull-ups, it means that every single stroke that you take is a smaller percentage of what you're capable of. I think the best example I can think of like this is a good friend of mine, Eddie Hall, uh, World Strong's man, first guy to deadlift 500 kilos.
1:19:53Uh, he entered a CrossFit competition and there was a particular wad. It was 60 kilos. There's a brilliant video if you've seen it, Jamie, but there's it's 60 kilos and you see these CrossFitters, they're upped overhead and it's a clean and it's a beautiful push press, but because Eddie is so strong and he's got such a big strength reserve, he basically, as you're about to see now, just I mean, that's a front delt raise mixed with a row.
1:20:20You see what that's crazy? If you don't know, that is so much harder to do it that way. 60 kilos. I believe 60 kilos. And so, like I said, the CrossFitters, perfect technique. They clean it to the chest and then they are bending their knees and they are [ __ ] ain't even touching his chest. That's crazy.
1:20:38>> It's a front delt raise kind of with a rope. >> That's literally insane. If you don't know, that's literally insane. >> But my point here is I mean Eddie's an absolute specimen, but my point here is is he doesn't train for this. This is completely he doesn't this isn't his >> clearly cuz he doesn't do that movement at all.
1:20:55If he did that movement, he wouldn't be doing it that way. >> But he's got an immense strength reserve. And so that's my point, dude. >> Actually, he broke the record. >> That is so insane. That's so insane that he did that that way. Now watch a regular crossfitter do it. Can you show a regular crossfitter do it?
1:21:14>> It's not on this video. >> Regular, but you can find it. Regular crossfitters, they catch it on their chest. >> Is Exactly. >> And then they step back >> as a poetic technique. And so that that's my point. So, coming back to the the swimming that as strong as I get when I'm strength training, it just means that every single stroke over the Arctic Circle is a smaller fraction of what I'm capable of.
1:21:34>> That makes sense. That makes sense. And then you have to be able to have that fine line between endurance and bulk >> is exactly. >> So, muscular endurance and you know, but also having strength >> is exactly it. I think also what was really interesting, an MRI scan revealed, so you have slow twitch fibers that are very resistance to fatigue.
1:21:51They're your ultramarathon runners. Then you have your fast twitch fibers that are sprint speed power and and what was so strange is on my MRI they said Ross you have an unusual proportion of fast oxidative glycolytic fibers. So they're basically in between the two. They're able to produce a lot of force but they're very resistance to fatigue as well.
1:22:09>> Is that cultivated? >> Interesting. They said I think I had a genetic predisposition for that but with the amount of training I've done I've also nurtured it. >> Interesting. How do they know that you have a genetic predisposition for it if they didn't examine you before you started all this training?
1:22:23>> It was all theory. Yeah, they said >> that's my question is I wonder how much of it is adaptable. Wonder of how much of what we say, oh, he has a genetic advantage. Like are we sure >> or or did this guy's body change because of necessity? >> It made intuitive sense when >> what would you call that?
1:22:38A clean press? >> The what Eddie Hall did? >> Uh no, it's there's a >> it's part of a workout called the Isabel. I just thank you. >> It's called the Isabella itself. >> So this is Noah Olsen who's an absolute specimen by the way competed in more >> catching it and then using his legs to to complete it.
1:22:58So he's doing it. Awesome. This is perfect technique. Look at that. Catching it. >> Oh, so they're not catching it on their chest and pressing. >> It's like a snatch press kind of something. >> Okay. So he's So it's called the Isabella. But do you see the rest I suppose between sets compared to the right the the delus and and like I said no is a good friend.
1:23:16He's an absolute specimen. >> What is uh what is the term wad? What does that stand for again? >> Of the day. >> There you go. >> What is it? Workout of the day of the day. >> And e-oms is uh reps per minute, right? >> Isn't that what it is? >> Where are we? Is it >> okay? So this workout of the day is a whole bunch of these.
1:23:37>> Oh, 30 snatches. I think this one's different. Actually, it might be different. Well, the I did the Eddie it said that he he did that particular Isabelle benchmark workout in 50 seconds. So, I think that's >> I mean that's just what I'm going off of. I was trying to find >> interesting if it's something different.
1:23:52My bad. But >> no, but yeah. But it does illustrate >> interesting. Uh beating the previous male record previously associated with figures like Rich Froing, but Rich Froing is like way smaller than him, >> which is crazy >> that he could do that cuz it's the same weight, right? >> Is it the same weight they're all using?
1:24:10Yeah. Yeah. It will be 60. Yeah. >> That's even nuts that Rich Froin could do that with cuz I don't think his body weight is anywhere even close to that. >> Eddie Hall's 300 plus pounds, right? He's got a bit leaner now as well. >> Yeah, he he's getting smaller. Well, he's done some MMA fights and [ __ ] >> Yeah.
1:24:28With Tommy as well. Did you see he went the distance as well with Tommy Fury boxing? >> Yes. Crazy. >> I think they both won that fight. It was amazing in that, you know. Yeah. No one expected him to go that far. You know what I was really impressed with when he had a boxing match with the mountain. And what I was really impressed with was The Mountain.
1:24:44I never say his name correctly. How do you say his name? >> Thor Bjönson, I believe. >> Bjönson. Bjönson. >> Thor Bjönson. Yeah. >> He didn't use his strength. Like he was throwing punches like with perfect technique. He was throwing punches like a boxer. like he learned how to whoever trained him, >> they did an amazing job because the guys obviously got ridiculous power, but he he he's like throwing punches correctly and he dropped Eddie Hall a few times whereas Eddie Hall is just winging at
1:25:12him with the these wild power shots. Thor is moving around him and look, see how he's throwing his technique. It's very clean, man. Even his jab, >> look at that. It's he's not overextending. M >> I mean he clearly is like a new boxer but a very good athlete and is figuring out how to use his his technique and and recognize that the power is always going to be there cuz he's so [ __ ] huge.
1:25:36>> He dropped him a few times in that at least once in that fight. >> I find that amazing when sometimes like the laws of martial arts sometimes need to be slightly bent for people that size. You know again having rolled with certain people like they you get an arm bar and they just stand up with you.
1:25:50>> Yeah. Well that's a problem. Like there's certain techn Marcelo Garcia who was the giant killer. He famously would just go for necks like because he felt like a kamura like he obviously he knew how to use a kamura. He's a very high level black belt. One of the greatest grapplers of all time if not the greatest.
1:26:06And Marcelo never hit Kamuras. He would just get necks. So he became a neck specialist. So his whole thing was high elbow guillotine and rear naked choke. If you got your back you're [ __ ] And that was what how he was able to defeat much larger opponents because you can't really defend. If he can get that rear neaked choke around your neck and stop the blood to your brain, >> that's it.
1:26:27You go to sleep. Like you you can not tap. If someone gets you an arm bar, you can allow your arm to get broken. And I've seen it happen a lot of times. But what you can't do is stop a guy from choking you unconscious. And so Marcelo being as smart as he is and being a small guy, he's like 160 pounds, he just figured, okay, I'll just get everybody's neck.
1:26:44And he just became a neck specialist. I love what you said there as well because I I often think, you know, the best athletes are the best at doing what they do best. And what I mean by that, whether it's ultramarathon running, whether it is CrossFit, World's Strongest Man, it doesn't matter. You lean into what you're really good at.
1:26:59You sort of kabib wrestling, uh, you know, Pereira striking. >> Sure. >> It's just you just drill what you're really good at. I think for me, swimming certainly that's what I've sort of honed in on. I'm like, look, I'm not going to be built like Michael Phelps. don't have this poetic nice stroke, but what I can do is just get crazy strong for a endurance athlete.
1:27:16So, my strength reserve is so much bigger >> and do something really insane like swimming for three [ __ ] days. >> Exactly. >> That's the thing is like most of these guys are just not going to be willing to do that. They're willing to do a race because in a race you just go all out and you know it only lasts for a few seconds and when it's over it's over.
1:27:34>> You know, >> yeah, >> you do that and you can turn around the the shore's right there. Like you you have to keep going. you have many days in front of you and that's just a completely different thing. >> You know, I think that's it because I've always I was brought up with my my dad and my granddad telling me stories one of athletes but two, you know, the heroic age of Antarctic exploration when Admonson Robert Falcon Scott Shackleton were trying to get to the South Pole and
1:27:58you know about the Robert Robert Falcon Scott and Admonson the the contrast in what they did >> you know with Admonson just Norwegian efficiency to get to the South Pole. turns up. He's learned so much from those indigenous in the Arctic. Uh learned about dogs. All of the crew were gifted in cross-country skiing.
1:28:13In comparison, the the British guy, Robert Falcon Scott, brought ponies that fell through the ice, mechanical sleds that broke down, tinned food, terrible. >> What was so interesting as they got there, Admonson even knew as he got to the South Pole, he had a certain amount of dogs, >> and then on the way back, he knew he could start systematically eating the dogs on the way back.
1:28:34Whereas the British, Robert Falcon, Scott, refused to do that. They were just handling, manhandling all of their sleds. And when they got there to the South Pole, they saw the Norwegian flag there already. Then were forced to trek back. And I mean, one of the most harrowing, it was Lawrence Oats, um, whose foot was, you know, badly injured and he just knew that he was holding up the team.
1:28:52And then famously, as they were caught in a in a blizzard, he just turned to the team and just said, "Gentlemen, I'm going for a short walk. I might be a while." And he just walked to his death to try to make sure that his team made it. Oh my god. >> And they didn't. They didn't unfortunately. Yeah. >> And I think it's that idea of kind of like, >> you know, civilization and survival.
1:29:10You know, you have to go to a a strange place sometimes to actually make it. And I think that's that was almost the appeal for my career in inverted commas, if you could call it. >> Well, that's the appeal to people that are watching for sure. that you're clearly going to some strange place where you could die, >> you know, and that's why people like watching your what would you call I almost said stunts, but that's disrespectful.
1:29:33No, >> I say but they're not stunts. They're, you know, journeys. >> Yeah, they they are. Yeah, they in some ways when we're we're a noble way of saying >> I appreciate that, but no, right? It it is I always say they're almost these sporting spectacles that we use as a Trojan horse to deliver ocean conservation.
1:29:52So, I don't mind stunt at all. that you're doing that. Yeah. I mean, obviously that's good, you know. I mean, I I think that there's one area of the world that we really are disrespecting and that's our oceans. And when I say that, I mean, >> we can't keep pulling fish out at the rate we're doing. >> It's nuts.
Ocean conservation and Somali piracy
1:30:10If you talk to fishermen and if you talk like the people that have done surveys and the obviously the ocean is enormous, it's very hard to understand, but the the middle of it is not where everything is. Most of the life on the ocean is near the shores and or at least reasonably close to the shores. 90 [ __ ] percent of all big fish aren't in the ocean anymore.
1:30:31Like all these tuna men that used to fish tuna way back in the day and catch thousands. It's a lot less now. It's and no one is even thinking about it. And you know, there's regulations that some countries have on the way they're allowed to fish, but some countries don't follow any of those [ __ ] regulations.
1:30:53>> You know, I mean, it's and what we've done to the, you know, fun fact, this is how Somalians became pirates. >> So, Somalians became pirates because they were fishermen. And they were all just fishermen. They were just peaceful fishermen living in Somalia. And these uh different countries were dumping toxic waste off their shore and it was killing all the fish.
1:31:14And so they first started kidnapping these people who were dumping these boats filled with toxic sludge or whatever the [ __ ] they were dumping nuclear waste, whatever they're dumping into the ocean and demanding a ransom because these people have caused them so much loss because the their fish are all dead.
1:31:31And then they thought about it and said, "Well, [ __ ] this. Why don't we just kidnap people?" And so that became their new sport. So the fish are all dead and they were on that what is that stuff called? Cat. >> Is that what it's called? So there's a there's a narcotic that they take called cat. And it's a a leaf that you chew.
1:31:51Is a nut. Is it a nut? >> No, it's a leaf. I thought >> it's a leaf. Um whatever it is, it's uh something that you chew that gives you like an amphetamine like state like look at me. I'm the captain now. Like that's that's cat. You [ __ ] You're messed up. You weigh 80 pounds. You've been up for seven days and now you're kidnapping people.
1:32:15And so that's that's literally Somalia's history. So when you look at like the Somalian scams that are happening in America and you look at like the stuff that's going on in Minnesota, like what how do all these Somalians get involved in all these scams? It all goes back to Europeans poisoning their water.
1:32:32>> Wow. >> Yep. Yeah, >> Russian I think I think Russian poison. I don't know. I don't want to blame any countries, but someone was dumping toxic waste in their water and that's what started all off. That's true, right? I think they called themselves the People's Coast Guard of Somalia. That's how they started it off.
1:32:48>> Wow. I know. >> They don't have a long history of pirates. They're not like like Blackbeard or any [ __ ] like that. This is a fairly recent and human history uh turn for their culture and it probably led to a lot of other criminal activity if you think about it. Like if the the core nature of your civilization gets shut off, the core nature is you're a fisherman, right?
1:33:08You you live in a village, you all catch fish, that's what you live off of. All that gets shut down. People go into desperation mode. People start taking cat. They're probably taking cat already. But they they they're doing amphetamines. And then they're kidnapping folks. Next thing you know, you're getting machine guns.
1:33:23You get all that money. Now you got a [ __ ] you got carbines. >> You got a 50 cal. >> Is that cat legal? Can I take that when I'm water tested or >> I don't think it is. >> Oh, >> I think it's I think it's uh is legal. >> I don't know what it is in America. We probably have it schedule one. House Somalian fishermen became pirates.
1:33:43>> It's a little old. It's 2009. This mostly just says that once they lost their government, uh it became a free-for-all. Right here, >> stealing all their >> I think that was part of it as well. >> Fishermen just kind of got pissed. >> I think that was part of it as well, but I think there was an aspect of it about poisoning the water.
1:33:58at I'm sure it probably came up later because this is still 2009. This is right right when it was kicking off really >> at this time when this article was written. It said they had 18 cargo ships being held. >> Okay, this is but see I think this is everything had already started to fall apart and I think it started to fall apart when the fish went away.
1:34:15If I remember correctly, this was quite a long time ago I read this. But see if you can put it into perplexity. Say uh is there a connection between uh Somali pirates and offshore dumping of toxic waste that led to depleting of their fishing grounds? >> I didn't ask that exact question. I just asked what was the reason they started taking ransoms.
1:34:36>> Um but see if that factors in see if it says that if you say was there uh an aspect of it where they were kidnapping people who had poisoned their water. kidnapping people who poisoned their water. Isn't AI wonderful? I know it's going to kill us all. Not necessarily. People they kidnap were not all people poison the water, right?
1:35:01But initially, there were serious reports and allegations of foreign companies dumping hazardous waste off of Somalia. However, a UN environmental OCHA account said two years earlier, UN fact-checking missions found no evidence. probably because the UN was dumping and its post tsunami inquiries did not identify specific dumping sites.
1:35:21So, they were kidnapping people, poisoning their water is much more definitive than the evidence supports. Yeah, I don't know if we know um the problem with AI it's pulling from all these different sources online. Yeah, maybe the story I read was biased as well, but the story that I well I read was sort of a sympathetic take on why there's so many uh pirates.
1:35:45I don't not sympathetic, but an understanding take like they're saying like you need to understand that this is a chain of consequences, >> a chain of events that took place. And one of those things was people dump like for sure someone's dump toxic [ __ ] into the ocean. We know they do that. And so it doesn't seem that far of a stretch to imagine that that initially started off uh a crash in their economy if their fishing lands were fishing poisoned.
1:36:16>> Go and try and sort it out. I'll do a swim there. >> Don't do that. >> Yeah. Swim and dress up like a dollar bill. >> I think I could either there or what? Straight up on >> a gold boat. Get yourself in a gold boat and put a sign that says we have no guns and go have fun. >> That would be amazing.
1:36:33I re asked and it gave a different answer. >> Yes, some Somali pirates explicitly describe their attacks as retaliation for toxic waste dumping, not just illegal fishing. Uh, previous answer understated the reporting behind that claim, but it does not established that the crews they kidnapped themselves dumping waste.
1:36:51Right. They probably just found people offshore and said, "You were dumping. I'm the captain now." In two Okay. Uh, 2008 pirate spokesman. Oh, they have a spokesman. I wonder if he was elected. I wonder how he became spokesman. You think he had a campaign? You think people had like signs on their lawn?
1:37:08Elect Joanna Ali Jama for spokesman of the pirates described a ransom demand as a way uh of reacting to the toxic waste has been continually dumped on the shores of our country for nearly 20 years. Oh [ __ ] 20 years is a long [ __ ] time. But I I believe that the report connected that claim to the captured MV Fina, a Ukrainian ship carrying tanks and military equipment, not a vessel identified in the report as a dumping waste.
1:37:37But what a great ship to bust. Imagine you get a [ __ ] a boat that's got tanks and military equipment. Now you got yourself a [ __ ] army, dog. Environmental accusations weren't solely a private invention. In that reporting, UN envoy Boy, say that guy's name. Oh, >> help me out. >> No, >> I'm not even going to attempt that one.
1:37:58>> Almadu Aloudude Abdala said the UN had reliable information that European and Asian companies were dumping toxic waste off Somalia. UNP spokesman Nick Natal described Som Somalia as a hazardous waste dumping ground, but said insecurity prevented a proper scientific assessment of the problems con extent.
1:38:20Listen, man. People love to dump [ __ ] in the ocean, these [ __ ] [ __ ] Like, you know, you remember when that kid got killed in Egypt? He was at a resort in Egypt and he got killed by a shark. >> I think I saw the video. >> It's a horrible video cuz he's screaming for his father. >> He's screaming for his father.
1:38:37>> Mhm. >> So, what we had uh heard and we looked into it. It's not conclusive, but it seems like they were dumping sheep carcasses in the ocean. >> Like when they had sheep carcasses, they didn't want them just laying around rotting. So they put them in a boat, take them out to sea and dump them in the water.
1:38:53So what did that attract? >> What do you think that sharks? >> And so then these sharks were in that area >> and people there was a really beautiful resort. People go take their families, go on vacation in a [ __ ] monster soup. >> Monster soup right out there. I tell you, make [ __ ] soup out of their dicks.
1:39:15Take pull them out of the water. Serve it up. We need to go back to sharks fin soup. These [ __ ] people think sharks are their friends. >> Do I So So do I need to swim Somalia and sort that out then? >> I don't think you do. I think you should probably stay out of that. Maybe that'll be the one that kills you.
1:39:30>> No. >> Whatever the [ __ ] is in that water, whatever the 20 years of toxic dumping, that's not good. You don't want that in your skin. >> No deal. No deal. >> Yeah. Going back to the cardio, I wanted to ask your opinion on this. Uh best cardio in the UFC or MMA actually in history. >> Oh boy. >> I'm going to go I'm going to put some up there.
Altitude training and endurance
1:39:47Morab. >> Morab is probably >> Bisping. >> Yeah, Bisping had phenomenal cardio. Bisping would melt people. I remember his fight with J Jason Mayhem Miller who was very talented. >> Yeah, >> Bisping just melted him. Just his pace was insane. >> Nick Diaz. >> Nick Diaz. Insane pace. Y >> Nate Diaz also also incredible cardio.
1:40:06Yeah, >> there's a lot of these guys now. It's like it's we're we're in a realm now of of athletes. Joshua Van, insane cardio. Insane cardio. Joshua Van, who's the flyweight champ in the fifth round, fights like he's in the first round. Insane. The level now is is is at an all-time high. >> But that's why Kane Velasquez was so weird because it just didn't make sense.
1:40:25Didn't make sense. Demetrius Johnson and the smaller guys, you just kind of like Yeah. Yeah. You're not inhibited by gravity the same way. But with Kane Velasquez, you were like that just you shouldn't you should be able to do that. >> DC told me Kane would take a couple months off of training like he had an injury, had to take time off of training, come back three months later, [ __ ] everybody up at the gym.
1:40:40He said in cardio drills. He said it was nuts. Oh, >> that was nuts. He said his his base was just just insanity. Meanwhile, he lost the title to Fabricio Verdoom in Mexico City at altitude because he was only there for 2 weeks. >> And Fabricio Verdum, he got a place to train in the mountains above Mexico City.
1:41:02So, Fabricio was living at like I think it was like 9,000 plus feet above sea level and training up there. >> And so, he had phenomenal cardio. And Kane actually gassed out in that fight and Fabricio caught him in a guillotine to win the title. >> I remember. Yeah. >> Yeah, man. That was a big moment because nobody had ever not just beaten Kane that way, but beating Kane with like where Kane was tired >> like you never saw Kane tired.
1:41:28>> It just shows you that altitude training is [ __ ] critical, man. If you want to compete at altitude, I was showing you the uh hypoxia chamber that we have here, the Exalt uh I think it's called the Exalt XP hypoxia trainer. It is so hard to work out at altitude, but if you can do it, I did it in preparation for this uh hunt that I did in Utah.
1:41:52And so I did it for two months and I was very rigorous. I was very regular. I was doing two really hard cardio workouts inside that thing a week. That's all they recommend. They said, "Don't do more than that cuz you'll get to a point where you can't recover." Like you want two, maybe three once you've built up, but I never got to three.
1:42:10Made a giant difference. Giant difference. Like I could really cuz I go to the same place every year and at the highest point it's probably 9,000 ft. At sometimes you're at 5,000 7,000 but you know you're walking up like very steep loose dirt at 5,000 7,000 ft. It's hard. It's really hard. So, so was you could feel it physiologically hemoglobin.
1:42:33You could feel >> I could feel that I had more gas. 100%. Amazing. >> Yeah. A big difference. Big difference. >> And uh I only got to do it for two months. And now I'm thinking I'm getting ready for next September. I'm like, if I can do it for a whole year, if I could do that twice a week for a year, that'll make a giant difference by the time September rolls around.
1:42:51>> 100%. I think that's going to change a lot of the way I think that particular type of training when you're training at like that machine can crank you up to above 20,000 ft above sea level. I've only done 14 I've done 145. That's the highest I've done. It's it's insanity. There's no air in there, man.
1:43:08There's no [ __ ] air in there. And you're doing sprints on the air dye machine. You're doing sprints on the treadmill and and doing kettle bell swings. And it's like when you get out of there, man, it's like your body gets this rush of oxygen like As soon as you open the door, you're like, "Oh my god."
1:43:23But then once you recover from it, the next time it's a little bit easier, and the next time it's a little bit easier. It's like you feel your body adapting cuz it's like, "Oh [ __ ] we got to do this." So in a realworld scenario like what we are here, like what is the sea level here? What's the altitude here?
1:43:41>> 500 600 ft. >> Nothing. It's nothing. You feel like there's so much [ __ ] air you can run through a building. That's what it feels like. And I think that's a gamecher. And so many of these like really high level camps have chosen to train at altitude. >> You know, you have a bunch of them have done obviously the Dagistanis, they train I I don't know what what is Dagistan what is uh Dagistan above sea level.
1:44:04I got it's in the mountains. >> Yeah. >> I got to say they're probably 4,500 5,000 ft. >> You know, obviously they have the Olympic training center in Colorado Springs. I think that's above 5,000 ft, >> you know, and They have actually both they go they have they have areas below sea level >> that are down by the Caspian coast and they have mountain peaks that average elevation is 500 meters though.
1:44:31>> Interesting. >> So it's like 1500 600 feet. >> Yeah. Max is max is what? >> That's a peak. That's a mountain peak is 14,000. >> Max is 14,000. But these some of these mountain towns like where Kabib is. Where's he at? >> I know they do runs. They do runs at altitude, >> you know, as does like the guys in Denver >> in a high spot.
1:44:51>> What's that? >> 2,000 meters above. So 6,500 or so >> where he is. >> Okay. So he's pretty high. Mountain >> village 6 6,000 ft is high. >> So if if you're training at that altitude, that's that's akin to Colorado Springs or a lot of these places, >> you know. Um Justin Gate's coach, Trevor Whitman, he has a lot of his guys, they do runs in the mountains.
1:45:11They do these runs uphill of the mountains and >> unlimited water as well. There's some good stuff now around dehydration training. >> That's Justin's big thing. He will not drink water while he's training. >> Control dehydration. Yeah. >> Oh Jesus. >> Could be up there. >> That's that view is insane.
1:45:29>> So there there is a this is a weird story. I've got um there is a method that could make you a faster runner. Um and I'm going to apologize now. This is a little bit left field, but I was in Namibia. I was um learning from the sand bushman out there. We were How do you organize that? >> Yeah. Oh, was a a documentary >> through WhatsApp.
1:45:45>> Yeah. Can I come? >> So, we are out there doing like a marathon a day. We for the entire week, barely any water. It was horrible. >> One particular guy out there and they're amazing. They're just gliding across the sand basically as well. I'm just like heavy running trying to keep up with them. And there was one particular guy in the tribe as well who was um could trace his ancestry back to the Kurigin tribes.
1:46:05Did you know about the Kurigan tribe? >> No. >> So, it's basically an ethnic group specific to Kenya. You are Oh, you you already smashed yours. I'm still working on mine. >> Let's get >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Silly talking [ __ ] Let's go. Sorry. >> So, basically, um, Curigen tribe ethnic groups specific to Kenya produce, uh, more amazing marathon runners than anywhere else.
1:46:23It's disproportionate just how good they are with this particular group of people. Um, and as we're sitting around the campfire, they turned to me and they said, uh, this guy goes, Ross, do you know why we're so good? Do you know why the Kurs are so good at running? And I said, altitude. And he went, nope.
1:46:36And I was like, barefoot running. of beautiful biomechanics. Nope. >> Circumcision. >> Oh, you know it. >> Yeah. And crawling crawling through needles. >> Oh, you know it. >> Crawling through thorns. >> You're right. And they but but with the mud as well. >> Yeah. >> And they don't pass on. Yeah. So it's >> the circumcision as a grown boy with uh no no nothing.
1:46:56No water, no cleanliness, no no anesthesia. Just they cut it. I think they use a knife, right? Or a sharp rock. Well, the the the the theory goes that he was saying that basically with the circumcision, you're basically as a young man in front of the entire tribe, they all come out and they put clay like mud on your face and so you have to like just sit there and then basically the guy takes the chief of the tribe takes your tackle and then with essentially a tackle.
1:47:20I like that. Takes your tackle, circumcise you, you cannot flinch. If you flinch and the mud cracks, all of a sudden in the tribe, everyone will be like, "Ah, he's not very desirable." So, you don't basically find a girl. you don't have kids and only those where the mud doesn't crack, they're considered desirable and they pass on their genetics.
1:47:39So, generation after generation, you're passing on this pain tolerance and in the end you end up cur tribe just unbelievable runners. Yeah. I mean, he looked across and said, "Ross, do you want to be faster?" Pulled out a knife and I was like, "I'm good." >> Yeah. What if you're already circumcised? What is he going to do?
1:47:56Take it back an inch? [ __ ] dude. >> Yeah. What does he do then? Like I want in, but the problem is they did me when I was a kid. >> I didn't want to ask. >> Didn't even help. I didn't have to crawl through thorns. Nothing. >> Yeah. You have to crawl through thorns with your bloody dick. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:48:11Yeah. >> And you can't winse. Can't make any noise. >> That's the whole point. Yeah. And then you can't react to the pain. >> Those who don't react considered desirable. They pass on their genetics a generation after generation. You just get this incredible >> Are you going to show me a video, Jamie?
1:48:25How dare you? >> I just paused. I just But that's what they look like. Put the mud on their faces, I think. Oh boy. >> Getting ready. >> Some lady talking about it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Fun times. >> And then you just got to remain there. >> All that just to run. >> Yeah. One of my >> I hope somebody beats him that doesn't do that.
1:48:42>> Well, it's funny you said that actually. So, do you know about um Emil Zatipek? >> No. >> Oh my god. This guy, he the greatest endurance runner in my opinion to ever exist. He's amazing. So, so basically to this day, no one's ever done what he did at the Olympics. Helsinki Olympics. won the 5,000, won the 10,000, and then turned to his coach and he just went, "Um, I think I will run marathon tomorrow."
1:49:03And his coach was like, "No, no, no. Look, this is a terrible idea. You should not run the marathon. It's completely different events, you know, over twice as far, Emil, this is a terrible uh an idea." And he turns and Emil just goes, "Who who is the favorite?" And it was a British guy. So, it was the British guy.
1:49:17He's he's everybody thinks he's going to win. And Emil goes, "Okay, no problem. What I do, I will run on his shoulder and then just at the end before we get into stadium, I go boop and I run around and I will finish. And the coach is like, "Please, Emil, this is just, you've got two gold medals. Please, let's just leave it there."
1:49:32And he goes, "No, no, no, no. This documentary is amazing." It then cuts to the British guy who's older and he's recounting this this entire race. And he says, "I am uh I'm running and uh things are going well." And then I I feel on my shoulder I feel this this Emil just pops up on my shoulder. And a meal turns to me, he goes, "I um I'm so sorry.
1:49:51I've never run marathon before. Um so I don't know if this too fast or too slow." And I thought to myself, "You [ __ ] I'm going to mess with you. I'm going to mess with your head." So I turned and I said, "No, no, no. This is far too slow. We're in trouble." Thinking that would break in a meal just turned and went, "No problem.
1:50:06I will see you at finish line." And ran and won. Three gold medals, Helsinki Olympics. The reason I tell that story as well is not many people know. But his training, next time you're down an athletics track, he used to do 100 400 meter sprints. >> What? >> Yeah. A sprint marathon. A day. Yeah. Well, not a day, but but his he pioneered interval training.
1:50:26People didn't think you could train that hard. There he is. >> Wow. >> Look. And what I love as well is how he ran. He ran like he'd been shot in the leg. That's not a meal. He was just There he is. There he is. So, he runs like he's been shot. Ugly technique. Bad. Yeah. This And again, I think this is the marathon.
1:50:43This is after he's already won the 5,000 and the 10,000. And here he is. He >> He looks like he's in agony. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, and the story goes with that as well. And this is what I love. So, with somebody like him, 100 400 meter sprints, but his his wife was an amazing javelin thrower as well. So, date night for them is they'd go out and his wife would just like launch the javelin and he would go and get it like a dog and then come back and be like, "Here you go, babe."
1:51:09She'd be like, "Thanks, babe." and just hilarious. >> He used to uh run with his wife on his back through the woods and then sometimes when he wasn't able to run because it was snowing too much or condition wouldn't allow uh famously he would get in the bath and just basically just tread on on dirty laundry as well just to try to just as well.
1:51:25So Emil Zatipekc to your point I always find it fascinating that sometimes when you talk about people who are you know I've been training so hard I've sacrificed so much I'm like yeah that's great but I don't want to go against an Emil Zatipek someone who just loves it someone who just date night is running out their intervals bringing back >> well have you heard of that race they do where it's a race until everyone else drops out >> of course backyard ultras.
Emil Zatopek and ultra races
1:51:53>> Yeah but it's there there can only be one one person can win. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. You must I think Chris Williamson was talking about you a mutual friend of ours talking about Mark Dael who was just basically like hunting and like just stalking the competition and it was called the last soul ultra.
1:52:10And so Mark Dow when this guy stopped like tie his shoelace Mark was behind him and just hunting him like prey and they had them on the the night vision and they're like what is going on? It's just mind games. >> And so one person eventually doesn't quit. >> Exactly. >> Everybody else quits. >> Yeah.
1:52:26Exactly. >> How long did they go? >> These go I think there's the current record I swear somebody did something like 91 hours. >> Yeah. It's just it's just nuts. It's just nuts. I swear. Yeah. Oh my god. Recent I think it was Phil Jamie if you find it. But he he recently Yeah. >> Oh yeah. Go Mark. That's when he won the last Ultra.
1:52:46>> 95 laps 636.5 km. >> The man >> last soul ultra. Oh my god. He but he talks about it as well. What I love is he talks about actually collecting their souls. So So at the end you're basically given a trinket which has got everybody's soul on it and he's there like some >> ancient warrior holding it >> in a way is kind of right.
1:53:09He ran for 94 straight hours without sleep to win the Last Soul Ultra. 94 hours is crazy. >> Like what was he seeing? What was he seeing at hour 92? How many elves did he come into contact with? For sure he saw elves. For sure. >> For sure. >> There he is. >> There's him on Loop 72. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god.
1:53:35And the thing about him too is he's kind of a bigger guy. I believe his background was lacrosse as well. So he weight trains, which goes back to what I was talking about before about mechano transduction, strength reserve that you're that you'd say that doesn't make sense for an ultra endurance athlete.
1:53:50Again, I would argue that his biomechanics are just perfect and they won't break down compared to somebody who doesn't have that strength background. >> Um, so they're actually Yes, the there's a backyard ultra. He's actually doing it at the moment, I think. I'm >> 94 hours. >> Oh, that was an update from now.
1:54:07>> What's that? >> That video I just played was right. >> Yeah, they're doing it now. So, I think it's Team America. >> Oh, it's happening right now. >> On Loop 54 right now or this one two hours ago >> and he's just on social media just talking through everything as well. >> Loop 54. How many days ago was that?
1:54:21>> This is 20 hours. 20 hours right now. I was at noon. >> He talked about like on the first 24 hours he's just like that's just your ticket. You know that just gets you in the race. It's now it begins and that's after 24 hours. >> Oh my god. >> What a legend. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. I think and also >> 24 hours.
1:54:40It's crazy. >> It's nuts. It's nut. I mean for me on some of my swims as well just those hallucinations like when they start like probably one of my worst was Loch Ness and that was before everything went really bad. Loch Ness is basically really narrow. Um and when you look up at night it looked like there was loads of trees but the trees almost formed the silhouette of uh like a cruise ship.
1:54:59I remember being like that's really weird. I'm eating a banana and I'm looking up and all of a sudden the branches start waving and to me at the time I was like it looks like people have come to the side of the cruise ship to support me. So my girlfriend's watching and all the crew and I'm just there eating a banana and I'm going guys thank you so much your support means especially 2:00 in the morning.
1:55:21God bless you guys. Thank you like that. And my girlfriend's like oh he's he's talking to the trees like he's thanking them for their support. >> So sometimes Oh you go. Yeah. That's when he's tying his >> That's when he's stalking him. >> He's just waiting behind him. >> He's like, "What are you doing?"
1:55:35And >> what I love, it's all mind games at this point. >> Not going anywhere. >> Wow. >> I think the reason I love Mark as well is because he's bringing a level of gamesmanship and mind games that that wasn't really seen in Ultra Endurance, >> right? They're all supposed to be super supportive of each other.
1:55:52>> Exactly. And I think you see it in other sports as well. >> Yeah. But you can't be super supportive if there's only going to be one person standing. >> Exactly. Exactly. I mean, one of my favorite examples in in MMA was uh uh Yuri and Pereira where they were talking about no shamanic ritual. >> And I'm like, look, whatever >> Yuri was saying, don't use any voodoo, please.
1:56:15>> Don't use any magic. >> I thought this is the greatest time in the UFC when someone's going, "You're not allowed to use magic. >> I want a clean fight. No magic." >> It's amazing. I mean, on that note, who do you think is the best at mind games in UFC history? Chaos son be >> Chelson's really good, but Conor McGregor's pretty damn good, too.
1:56:33>> Conor McGregor when he fought Jos Aldo, he had Jose Aldo in a funk because Aldo was a legend and he was respected by everyone and Connor was just continually disrespecting him >> and just mocking him. He stole his belt famously at the press conference. >> He was in his [ __ ] head, >> you know. But obviously that backfired against Kabib because that [ __ ] didn't work on Kabib.
1:56:53Kabib was on top of him. Punched him in the face saying, "Let's talk now. Let's talk now." He just punched him in the face. Let's talk now. >> And Conor was trying to say, "It's only business." He's like, "Come on, we're talking." >> This is what I find so strange that if aliens came down to this world and you had to explain to them like, "Who is the best mixed martial artist?"
1:57:10You'd go, "Okay, so here's Kabib, uh, devout Muslim, doesn't drink, uh, you know, lives in the mountains." And you go, "Oh, cool. So that's the blueprint." And you go, "Ah, well, no. Sorry. So there's a guy John Jones over here. >> It does coke. [ __ ] everybody up. >> Exactly. >> Well, there's outliers.
1:57:29There's outliers. There's outliers. You know, >> that's exactly it. >> There's always like these Bo Jackson characters that could do anything. >> There's there's there's people out there in the world that are outliers and it's uh very unusual when you stumble across them. It's one of the things we love watching an outlier.
1:57:44We love watching someone that's just like so unique and different than everyone else. Like, wow. >> We love that. like a Michael Jordan, a Tiger Woods or someone is just like above and beyond. You're like, "Wow, I love that." >> That was it. Definitely looking at like the hero's journey with Joseph Campbell, good versus evil.
1:57:59And with the whole Daniel Comey and Jon Jones rivalry, I was like, "Oh, this is it. This is amazing. This is the, you know, the good and evil and this is and then you have something like John Jones who just goes, "Oh, no, that's that's not." For me in boxing as well, it was Mayweather and I loved Ricky Hatton as well.
1:58:13So when you saw Mayweather there, like if it doesn't make money, it doesn't make sense on the bags. And then you got Ricky Hatton having a cup of tea with his grandma and you're like, "Oh, this is it. That's so wholesome." >> That's a little bit of [ __ ] though. Ricky was a [ __ ] animal. He He was He was an animal.
1:58:28Ricky separated a lot of people from their consciousness. He was an animal. That was Daniel. >> That was just a skill thing, >> right? Okay. But Daniel Cormier is a good one. They're teaching kids wrestling and you're like, "Ah, this is amazing." And then >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, John's not a bad guy.
1:58:44He's just an animal. I mean, he's he's cut from a different cloth, you know. There's there's people in this world that are just wilder, you know, and it's one of the reasons why he's so good. There's a certain element if you want to be a professional cage fighter. You have to there's a certain amount of you have to have all these things to be the goat like John.
1:59:01You have to have all these things like perfect technique, incredible work ethic when he does work, uh, amazing talent, and an IQ for it. It's that's a a really underrated factor is Jon knows what to do with each po famously will not take a fight on short notice. Even with a guy like Chale Sunen who on paper you can wake John up at 3:00 in the morning he's going to [ __ ] Chel Sunn up on paper.
1:59:26No disrespect to Chale he's a great fighter but there's levels and I think Jon is just on a complete and he's a larger man right Chale did his some of his best work almost won the title against Anderson Silva at 185. >> Jon is never making 185. He's a much bigger man. And >> John would not take a fight with Jail Sonnen on short notice.
1:59:45>> And when when he did take a fight with Jail Sonnen, he [ __ ] him up in the first round. He just annihilated him >> even with a bad toe. >> And well, he smashed his toe in the process. He was pushing off the ground so hard that he twisted his own [ __ ] toe around. >> I think we isolated it in a replay where we could see the moment where his toe snapped.
2:00:03And it was because he was delivering ground and pound with such force that as he was pushing off he snapped his own toe and turned it around. >> And to this day when he fights he has to tape those toes together >> to this day. >> One of my favorite Jon Jones is the uh the arm bar with Vtor Bell for >> Oh yeah.
2:00:20>> Yeah. >> Completely hyperextended. >> But it's another example of like guys won't tap if you break their arm. >> You know they they will hang on. And then he wound up winning that fight by Kamura in the next round. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He got through that where most people would have tapped. His arm was [ __ ] and he couldn't fight for a long time after that cuz he had to rehabilitate that arm.
MMA durability and special forces tests
2:00:39His arm was [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> That going back to the >> Yeah. Look at that. I mean that is and also that's Vtor who was a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt under Carlson Gracie elite arm bar and then he wound up tapping Vtor in the next round. Even with his fight with um Gustiffson as well, it just like going back to that anterior meticulate cortex, it just must be massive in him as well.
2:01:01Do you think who who do you think I mean there's obviously Gatei, who do you think is one of the most durable, one of the most >> Gachi is probably the most durable guy ever, which is like incredible that Max Hollow knocked him out like that. But other guys that stopped him before, too. But that's just a part of being a human being.
2:01:16If you're a human being and you get hit by the greatest fighters in the world, you get stopped. It's just how it is. It's just there's if you get hit clean, no matter who you are, some guys are more durable than other guys, but no matter who you are, >> somebody head kicks you, if somebody hits you with a wheel kick or something like that, you're most likely going to go unconscious or close to it.
2:01:36>> Yeah, >> that's just a part of the game. A flying knee, very few people can survive that. It's just it's like one of those things where you get hit and you just sep this weekend uh or two weekends ago rather >> with uh Johnny Walker. Yeah. Johnny Walker hit this dude with uh a knee from the tie clinch and a heavyweight.
2:01:59>> Yeah. And just separated him from his consciousness. Like, and this guy's a massive 265 lb man that he did it to. And it just proves my point. It's like no matter who you are, there's certain things if you get hit with them, you just can't take it. You just can't take it. And with, >> you know, the Max Holloway fight with Justin that was in a five round war.
2:02:17He had been beaten up because he got hit with a jump spinning back kick to the face at the end of the first round shattered his nose. So his nose bowden was broken. So he's compromised from the end of the first round on and then Max is hitting him with all these shots and then finally in the fifth round in a fight that Max is winning, Max points to the ground and says, "Let's just stand and throw."
2:02:40And they just whail at each other and Max famously knocks him out like one of the greatest. But that's not indicative of how durable he is. It's like most people would have never made it to that fifth round. He's insanely durable and that's why you saw that fight with Ilia Taporia. He weathered that second round and came back strong in the third.
2:02:58He's insanely durable. Like maybe the most durable guy in the sport and the most calm under fire. Like he never it never changes his expression. He never looks lost. Even when he's getting hurt, he never looks out of it. He just looks hurt. But he's always like like he went back to his corner after the second round with Tapora.
2:03:18Tapora dropped him with a liver shot. He goes nice liver shot. He said nice liver shot. He got me with a nice body shot. He was like complimenting his opponent for hitting him in a good spot. He was like that calm like that was nice. Nice liver shot. >> It's almost that Emil Zatipek. It's genuine. You seen in the corner he's having the best time.
2:03:35I'm just like oh you're wired different. >> He's wired different. Justin's wired very different. He's wired very different. He's very smart. Like, he's a smart meatthead. Like, people think of him as being a dumbass because he's like silly and he does back flips and uh-uh, he's thought it out. Like, he's he knows what he's doing.
2:03:54Like, he's he's doing things that are very intelligent in there. And he has a bunch of things that he does that he does better than anybody else. And one of them is the uppercut from the collar tie. He does this collar tie uppercut. He hits everybody with it because he's a really good wrestler. even though he doesn't use his wrestling in MMA, he started out as a wrestler and he's a very good athlete.
2:04:13And he's got this collar tie uppercut that he catches everybody with >> and he pulls you into that uppercut, man. He [ __ ] a lot of guys up with that. That's one of his signature moves. >> But you you've spoke about as well with his wrestling in the past. I think this is so interesting going back to what we said about the the vententral stratum, the part of the brain that when things aren't going well, it almost implodes.
2:04:34Like losing feels so so bad. But I think wrestlers are just used to just getting beaten up, beaten up. One of the best examples on the swim, I have a friend who's in the special forces. Um, I was just every single tide, every single swim, I was just behind. I was behind. It was just again, like I said, just biochemically, neuroscience, I was just imploding.
2:04:52And he turned to me and this this really helped to sort of change my perspective on things. He said, "Ross, in the special forces, uh, we're not seeing how well you can win, we're seeing how well you can lose." Time and time again. I said, "Well, what do you mean?" And he goes, "There was one particular exercise that we did.
2:05:07Basically, you're on the assault bike, heart rate over 180, and they're checking heart rate monitor. So, you are redlining, coughing up a lung, breathing. They get you off the assault bike. They take you into a room. There's a guy there who's like 6'6, just huge. And then there's a door behind him, and they say, "Okay, you need to get past him.
2:05:22Behind that door, your friends, your platoon regiment are over the other side of the door. So, they just run in. This guy 6'6 is there just holding you." And then there's a guy with a clipboard in the corner. guy with clipboard gives a nod. Bang, knocks them clean out. He's out cold. The next thing he knows, he's being brought back round with smelling salts and he gets up like that and there's in his face going, "Do you want to quit?
2:05:44Do you want to k quit?" And my friend at the time was just like, "No, no, I'm good." And they so they let him up. He goes again, starts wrestling this massive six, waits for the signal, guy with a clipboard, nods, bang, knock down again. Did it three times, brought them back round and then and then they go, "Okay, you've passed.
2:06:01you passed. What was interesting is my friend said one guy actually made it past and got to the door only to find it was bolted shut. You were you were never going to win like ever. But that's not what they were testing. They were testing your ability to lose time and time again. >> Oh, that's terrible for you.
2:06:19>> No, it's bad. But but that idea of just sheer adversity, >> the idea is interesting. However, concussions, repeated concussions can change a person's life >> for sure. Yeah. >> Yeah. You knock a guy out, a big giant guy knocks you out three times. That's a terrible idea >> for sure. >> You sure they was punching them?
2:06:34He was punching him in the face. >> The way that the story was told to me. Yeah, >> I know. I mean, there's some br selection. Some of my friends in the special forces, some of the stories they tell me about selection, I'm like, that is brutal, but then you you realize that's why they're mentally bulletproof.
2:06:48>> Do you know who Mr. Ballin is on uh YouTube? >> No. Really interesting guy. Uh he's got a a great YouTube channel where he tells all these crazy uh spooky mystery stories, but he's a Navy Seal >> and former Navy Seal. And one of the things that he said about um what the people that make it through Buds, two people that do really well, two groups of people, one of them is wrestlers because they're just mentally tough.
2:07:11They're like they're they're training and constantly being dehydrated and tired and just pushing and and taking satisfaction being the most miserable. That's one of the things that wrestlers do. They take satisfaction suffering the most. They do really well. And then water polo players. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:07:28>> And then I was like, "Wow, why water polo?" And then I didn't know that water polo players never touch the ground. They're constantly treading water while they're playing that [ __ ] game. Like you have to be in insane shape to be in water polo. I never would have thought of water. >> You know, that was my background, by the way.
2:07:45>> I didn't. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I played England school boys all the way through to international. >> Oh, that makes sense. >> No, no, no. I love that you brought that up because it's it's absolutely true. Again, there's um there's a famous very famous match. It was basically called Blood in the Water and it was the Hungarians versus the Soviets and B there was they were at war.
2:08:01You so they were they were actually at war. The Hungarians were training under gunfire, bombs going off and everything. They then drew each other. I can't remember the name. It might have been the Melbourne Olympics, I believe, in the semi-finals. They drew each other. There's famous pictures where basically the water just went red.
2:08:16Blood in the water. That's what it was called, the match. And they just go at it. Um, >> so they were at war with each other in real life. >> Yeah. And then they >> So the Hungarians were at war with the Russians and then they went to war in volleyball in water. >> In water polo, they got Yeah. They got put against each other and they just go at it.
2:08:35It's nuts. I mean, even like, you can't see, but under my tongue, it's all a little bit of a mess under there cuz I remember I was playing water polo. Um, we were in the south of France. I come over the top like that. And as I do, I catch an elbow and I just like bite down. My tongue must have been out.
2:08:49And so it cut my tongue in half. And then I remember you then have to defend. It's kind of like basketball constantly back and forth like it's that quick. >> Why you got a mouth full of blood at >> Oh, there we go. Yeah. >> Blood in the water. >> Yeah. >> Wow. So they're just fighting each other. >> Yeah.
2:09:05I think Hungary won, I believe, 4-0. >> You have to be in insane shape. >> Yeah. >> To do that that game. >> They're trained. I always found this interesting because I made the England school boy squad um at 13 and I was playing against under 18. So I was I was the wrong side of puberty and I was just like playing against these just like men who were trained in like water jiu-jitsu.
2:09:26So I would throw a punch and then I just be under the water while >> you fight all the time in that. >> All the time. >> So it's like hockey. >> It's exactly Yeah. >> Hockey in the water. >> It's exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. So one guy >> might be my new favorite sport. Are they still allowed to fight? >> Yeah.
2:09:40Yeah. Yeah. If you put on YouTube, just put underwater fights, water polo. Just put it on and they'll have cameras at the Olympics and it's absolutely I mean, also >> in the Olympics currently, you're still allowed to fight >> for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, some of the women >> are they allowed to fight in the Olympics in hockey?
2:09:53>> Oh, I don't know. >> Probably not. >> That's weak. >> Weak sauce. That's part of the game. >> It's But I mean, I come >> boxing. You have boxing in the Olympics. You won't let people fight in hockey. That's whack. >> Agreed. But I Yeah. Back to my tongue. I come over the top. >> What' you say, Jimmy?
2:10:09You're strictly prohibited in Olympics. >> Strictly >> certainly not in water, by the way. You still see it. And the women >> water polo, they still they still get after it. >> The women's game is worse as well because obviously they got more of a suit to grab hold of as well. And you look at some of the underw
2:10:28and it splits my tongue in half. And I remember I then sprinted back to defend cuz they're Ross. Defend, defend. So I sprint all the way back and you can imagine now blood is just pumping around my body. My heart is going nuts and I stop and there's just blood everywhere. Like the whole water has just turned red around me, but I don't notice.
2:10:44I think it's somebody else. So I go, "Guys, guys, stop. Stop. Someone's been hit." And then I look and everyone in the stands is looking at me. And as they did, I remember it's almost like, you know, when you got like toffee or something in your mouth stuck in your teeth. >> Well, that was my tongue.
2:10:58So I was like I was going like trying to spit whatever it was out. And then I looked and it was just flapping. >> Oh my god. >> And they were like, "No, no, no. You're done." And I got out. They sewed it up. >> That's why it's a mess underneath. >> Yeah. >> How long does that take to heal? >> Well, weirdly, the tongue heals really quickly.
2:11:14Yeah. So, it wasn't wasn't too long. I was good in about a week. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. It was pretty bad. But it's the same in Malta as well. So, it's it's huge in Malta. Um, but out there, they will just put goals in the middle of the sea and just start playing, you know. So, we would go out and and if you're in gold and jellyfish come over, that is that is just part of the game.
2:11:34>> Warrior people. Let me see. Uh, water polo fights. >> Yeah, I could I'm It's not that >> not that exciting. >> No, it's tough to see. >> We'd have to curate. >> I mean, it's not find a good one. >> It's a lot of dudes really small. >> It's moving very slowly because it's underwater, >> right? >> Let me see.
2:11:51>> And it's also in slow mot. >> Oh, it's slow-mo. Also, they're showing these guys hitting each other in slow-mo. >> It's really hard to catch it, I think, as fast movement's happening because >> it's just the amount of endurance that you have to have to play a game like this. How long are your periods?
Water polo and ADHD discussion
2:12:06>> Like how long quarters depends on the age group, but yeah, four four minute quarters. Four, five minute quarters. >> So for four minutes, you're treading water and sprinting. >> It's weird. You're exactly right. It's swimming mixed with BJJ. >> Whoa. People are >> It's swimming mixed with like Yeah.
2:12:22I mean, Hungary are amazing. >> Oh, they're smacking each other in the face and [ __ ] Oh, that guy's choking that guy. >> Oh, they literally hold on to each other and then they swing it. Oh, this is crazy. >> Yeah, there we go. >> Oh my god, this is Oh my god, this is crazy. >> It's pretty standard.
2:12:38This is just Yeah, this is normal at a local competition. That's pretty standard. >> No wonder why these guys make good seals. >> Yeah. Yeah, it it's is you're literally drownroofing yourself. Like there's sometimes when I'm caught in an Arctic storm, I'm like, it's not as bad as playing Hungary. Like the amount the amount of times I was I was so close to drowning, it was nuts.
2:12:59>> Crazy. >> Yeah. And I think especially as well, I was always so young, like I said, I made the under 18 England school boys team when I was 13. So I was the wrong side of puberty and and we were playing against Malta at the time and they were just like big like beards playing against Hungary. And I just learned very quickly to be comfortable being uncomfortable, you know, that that Justin Gate stress inoculation training that ever since when I swim now and they're like, "Ross is an Arctic storm."
2:13:24I go, "Still got my tongue. He's not >> [ __ ] dude. >> Not too fat. >> You know, we were talking about uh Carlos Prates in that video that I was watching about the fighting nerds about how the guy like emulates animals and stuff. One of the things that they were talking about is how Carlos had a losing record early in his career.
2:13:41He's like or close to it like five wins, four losses or something like that. It wasn't doing well the first nine fights of his career. And then he decides to go to Thailand and he flies to Thailand. And the only way to make any money in Thailand is you have to fight. So he winds up fighting like every week.
2:13:55So he fights like six times in a month and he's like fighting constantly. But because of that constant fighting, then he gets like really accustomed and calm fighting. He has over a hundred Muay Thai fights. >> So he's fighting all the time and it just becomes relaxed to him. And so when you see him fight, he's always smiling, having fun in there.
2:14:14It's because he's fought so many times that he's sort of that fear of whatever that experience is like. For most people, it's like this daunting thing. They lock the cage door. Holy [ __ ] This guy is smoking cigarettes the week of the fight, smoking cigarettes the day of the fight, drinking, partying, just dead relaxed when he gets in there and [ __ ] everybody up.
2:14:37Like literally world class fighters like Jack Dela Matalena who was the former world champion beat the [ __ ] out of him at in in at his in his home country of Australia just beats his ass in a in a like a ferocious way where you're watching like wow like the level the gap between them is so vast >> and he's just essentially a product of that of just like being in the fire for so long you just get forged >> like constantly fighting See, I love that.
2:15:08That goes back to like the ancient Stoics, Epictit Tetus famously, I love this term. He said getting wintered. He said that wars were fought in the summer, but what you do in the winter has a profound impact on how well prepared you'd be. So, they would just be doing a cold hard winter's training. The Spartans as well famously would be given essentially a loin cloth and just been told to endure the winter to fight, you know, for your food, you know, so you just create these crazy warriors.
2:15:30And I think now we're getting modern versions. I think the the closest, you know, our mutual friend Liam Harrison, but he's just he's wired different, you know. >> Yeah, I said I told him he fights like he has rabies. >> Absolutely. That's the best way to >> He's like a little demon. >> But what I love about Liam as well, if anyone's ever spent any time around him, and he won't mind me saying this, but he's he's like vibrating.
2:15:53He's definitely got ADHD, but now there's so many studies with fighters saying those with ADHD actually process things so much quicker. >> I don't even believe in ADHD. >> Oh, you don't? >> No, I don't think it's a disorder that you're doping. >> I don't think it's a disorder. I think it's a superpower.
2:16:09I think we are conditioning children to sit in a classroom and do something that's insanely boring. And some people can endure it, and God bless them. And some people are not designed for it. And I'm one of them. And I don't think HD ADHD is a problem at all. Oh, I think I think it's a superpower. I think it gives you the ability to concentrate on things that you love to an extent that most people cannot fathom.
2:16:31>> I agree. >> You could obsess at things. I could play pool for 10 hours in a row and I don't eat. I just drink coffee and play pool and I don't have any problem with that. And everybody else wants to quit. I want to keep going forever. I That's ADHD. And I I see it in other people that are great at things.
2:16:46Gordon Ryan, for sure, he's got it. He [ __ ] trains 365 days a year. It's both things. It's discipline, but it's also this obsession that comes from if you were in school, they would say you have a disorder. There's something wrong with you. Why can't you sit down and do this boring [ __ ] all day? Well, cuz I don't like that.
2:17:03But if you sit those kids down in front of a computer and let them play video games, look at all the concentration they have. Look at all the focus they have. Look at how locked in they are in what they're doing. I don't believe in it. I I believe it's a thing. I don't believe it's a disorder. And by the way, I'm not unsympathetic to the varying degrees that people suffer from all sorts of disorders.
2:17:21I think for some people it probably is some sort of an a real genuine issue, right? Where they can't focus it and it's not something they can concentrate on other things that they love. They're just constantly scattered. I'm not talking about that. I think it's entirely overdiagnosed. And I think there's a lot of people that are just people that are just not wired to follow the standard norm of what I think is a very boring structure of most school work and most most school like
2:17:51most of what you have to endure when you're a young kid is sitting down when you have the most energy. You just woke up, okay? You you're fully rested. You ate breakfast. It's probably filled with sugar and you're just [ __ ] piping. You're sitting in that chair going Jesus Christ. I don't give a [ __ ] about Hitler.
2:18:07Why am I in this class learning about World War II? I'm 10. I want to go outside. I want to play ball. I want to run around with my friends. I want to do fun things. This sucks. And they'll tell you, you need to get on riddling. >> You know, they'll say, "Billy can't concentrate. Billy doesn't know how to count.
2:18:23>> I I completely because I think to that point, exactly. Friends of mine have said like, Ross, you have you definitely traits of ADHD." And again, I'm the same as you. I don't like that term because I always just say my dopamine works a little bit differently. And what I mean by that sometimes as well is even understanding the sort of biochemistry on 400 milligrams of caffeine and then maybe like cognizen for acetylcholine as well.
Creatine, caffeine, and cognitive tools
2:18:43So I'm >> what is cognizen? >> Um it basically is a a supplement a neutropic that will positively interact with acetylcholine which is a neurotransmitter that is less jacked up. You're just kind of dialed in and focused. Um that and alpha GPC. If I take that combination, I am just dialed in and just swimming.
2:19:03Every single stroke, I'm just there like going good, high elbow, good. And so, >> are you like constantly filling up in that stuff? Are you like replenishing your stock while you're as you're swimming? >> Yeah, alpha GPC you I know Huberman talks about you have to cycle that. So, that I will. Um, but certainly with caffeine, Cognizant, I'll be having that pretty much on most swims.
2:19:22>> Alpha GPC you have to cycle in terms of like how often can you take it? >> Hubman talks about every two days and then three days off. I think that sort of cycle. Yeah, you can build up a very quick tolerance to it. >> Interesting. 2 days and then 3 days off. But this other stuff, Cognizen you said.
2:19:36So what is in that? >> Uh so so that's the ingredient. That's the neutropic. I hope I'm getting this right. >> So it is an actual it's not a combination. >> No no no. And that affects acetylcholine which is amazing just for their just focus. >> Do you ever take acetylcholine by itself? >> No. So that's the neuro >> or alpha GPC.
2:19:50Do you ever take that? >> Uh alpha. Yeah. Alpha GPC. Yeah. There you go. So, it's a patented branded form of aceticoline. >> Um, a natural brain nutrient and neutropic ingredient used in dietary supplements, energy drinks, and functional beverages. I like that term, functional beverages. Isn't everything beverage functional?
2:20:09>> You know, you're getting hydrated, you're getting drunk, >> you're getting caffeinated. Those are functional. >> But will you do that as well? Whether you're training or dialed in on something, you'll know how your brain runs. You'll say, "Okay, I've got you know what really helps me is creatine." Creatine is a big one and uh I only become aware of that over the last I don't know few years or so that how much of an effect it has on mental focus and one of the things that they've shown is
Recovery peptides and stem cells
2:20:34people with sleep deprivation that when you have we're sleepd deprived when you take I think it's 10 or 20 mil grams >> a lot it's a lot right 20 is it 20 grams >> a lot I think it's more than that >> is it uh so whatever it is uh I I believe it's 20 grams or above whatever it is whatever the what's wrong with number is just so we could help people.
2:20:55>> Um it severely mitigates the uh negative aspects of sleep deprivation in terms of cognitive function, memory, all those different things. And I find that, you know, I've done a bunch of podcasts where, you know, like I said, I play pool a lot. I have a I have a real problem. And sometimes I'll come home from the comedy club and it'll be, you know, midnight and I'm wired from, you know, hanging out and >> Oh, 25 >> 25 30 grams for many adults.
2:21:19>> A small study. >> Strongest acute study is large. Uh, okay. Not a normal daily maintenance dose. Okay. So, so if you're tired, take 25 to 30 grams. >> And then that's the response. And normally I take 10 or 20. That's my normal. >> And you and that's cognitively then you'll be back to baseline. >> Uh, allegedly.
2:21:39It's hard to know, you know. I mean, we all vary daily. I I have days where I come in, I'm like, "Oo, I'm firing today." And then other days where I'm like, I can't even remember words. Like, how the [ __ ] am I doing this for a >> living? Yeah, >> you know, your brain is very it's it's it's like the [ __ ] earth's temperature.
2:21:55It [ __ ] fluctuates a lot. >> That is exactly it. And certainly on my longer swims. Now, creatine, I actually didn't do that during the Yukon swim. So, weirdly, there's just a part of me that does want to go back just to actually trial that because towards the end of the Yukon swim, I was in pieces.
2:22:09So, I would love to see if I could actually, you know, supplement to go that much further. And I think creatine was one that that I would love to add to the arsenal. >> So, here's what Jamie just pulled up. It says as part of the study 15 test subjects were kept awake overnight and had to solve cognitive tasks during this time.
2:22:24Sleep deprivation tends to change uh leads rather to changes in brain metabolism that promote the cellular uptake of creatine. Beforehand the test subjects have received a high single dose of creatine important metabolic product that is found in food and can also be produced by the body itself. 3 hours after taking the creatine, a positive effect on the brain metabolism and cognitive performance of the test subjects could already be observed.
2:22:46The effect reached its peak after 4 hours and lasted up to 9 hours. In particular, the improvements in processing capacity and short-term memory were seen. The results suggested that a single but high dose of creatine enhances thinking capacity and causes changing changes rather in the brain's energy reserves during sleep deprivation.
2:23:06I wonder um what it does if you're not sleep deprived. Like what if you're a kid and you have to take your ACTs or something like that? Like what what would that do for you? >> That is interesting cuz I I think that's the next frontier almost as well. Like I think we we've known >> small test subject, right?
2:23:21But it's still if you get a significant result from 15 people and you can measure the changes. >> I'd like to see it on a large study, but it's interesting. >> What what are a lot of the athletes using now in the OC supplement wise? creatine. >> Creatine is for sure one of them. But the issue with creatine is also it helps you put mass on.
2:23:38And a lot of these guys are trying to lose weight. So I don't know uh what what they're doing in terms of like there's some guys that are extreme weight cutters. There's guys that are cutting, you know, 20 lb, 30 lbs the week of the fight. It's really and and rehydrating to a ridiculous extent like before the fight.
2:23:55Like Alex Pereira is the greatest example. Alex would gain 40 lbs when he was fighting at 185 lbs. So he's fighting at 185 and he would weigh in on fight day at 225 226 >> which is nuts. >> Yeah. I always love Rob whist who let this guy in. >> Very strange. So it's also saying don't take that much >> right.
2:24:16Don't take that much >> even once. It says >> oh even once it's bad because it could put a heavy strain. >> It says for the time being however it's not advisable for people to take such a high dose of creatine at home at home as high doses of the substance put a heavy strain on the kidneys and can cause health risks.
2:24:31I wonder if you can mitigate that strain by hyper um >> said it was temporary too. >> It's temporary. Yeah, for sure. It says four hours. >> But what's temporary? >> The the the gain of cognitive effects. >> Well, for the large dose, right, for sleep deprived people, >> it's just that seems risky. >> Oh, yeah, definitely.
2:24:50Yeah. I mean, I don't think but I think one dose is probably akin to one night of drinking. Like, I don't think it's that bad. I think I think the real problem is you can't take that amount every day. >> No. >> Like what is I know people that take 20 grams a day though. >> There's so many people though that are just redlinining.
2:25:09>> And the thing is it's like their their biology might be different than your biology. You know, some people like they don't have a problem drinking every day. Like Shane Gillis can just drink every day and he's he got his liver tested. He's fine. And we were all like what? >> But I'm fascinated by this.
2:25:25>> The [ __ ] Like I said, for future swims, I think, you know, certainly at 41 years old, I'm kind of as fit as I'm going to be, you know, is that's this is the new frontier for me, you know, looking at neutropics. Um I know where >> I bet hypoxia training, too. >> You think? Yeah, that could add. Yeah.
2:25:41>> Yeah. Yeah. I I really do. I think it just it raises your capacity. >> I think it changes the red blood cell count in your body. >> That's it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, just like EPO does, right? >> Aggregation of marginal gains. Now I'm just at a point where I'm like right where can I just get like 1% here there.
2:25:56>> Are you using sauna regularly? >> Not as often I should be. >> Yeah. >> God that should be a daily for you. >> Yeah. You think? And even doing my cardio in there as well. >> Well yeah you can. I mean that's one of the aspects of the exalt chamber. >> So they do two different types of uh training in it.
2:26:09One type of training is high altitude. The other type is high heat. >> So uh I'll do sessions in there at 100°. And so yeah. And so but it's not high altitude. It's like st it's regular altitude. It's counterproductive to do the two of them together. >> Yeah. Because it's blood plasma >> according to the guys who are smart.
2:26:30>> The the the thing you're doing is when you are at high altitude, your heartbeat is naturally lower. It's difficult to get your heartbeat that high because there's no no oxygen in the air. When you're at high heat, your heart rate is high immediately. Like one of the things that I do, I'll uh do bag work.
2:26:45I do heavy bag rounds and then after the rounds, I jump right into the sauna. So, I go from being exhausted, I give myself just so I'm not dying so I could breathe normal. Like at the end of the rounds, I'm usually like really breathing heavy. I drink some electrolytes. I always bring a big 64 ouncez jug of water with ice and electrolytes in it.
2:27:07And then I go in 196 degrees and I sit in there for 20 25 minutes and I wear uh one of those uh straps, one of those um heart rate monitors and my [ __ ] will be at like 147 148 the entire time I'm sitting there >> cuz I never it never got to go down. >> So it's jacked up from the workout, right? And then I go right in and it I might be at 100 when I step in there and it goes right back up, right back up.
2:27:32So like 10 15 minutes in there, I'm just sitting there and I'm at one especially when I start doing heavy stretches, which is why I do a lot of I find that you can do stretches when you're in that 195 degree 196 degree heat that you're just not going to be able to pull off. And so I force my tissue to just force it into position and hold it.
2:27:54And that really jacks your heart rate up. Then I'll get into the 150s because I I love to go on a bit of a tangent as well. Now, there's so many good meta studies on um so studies of lots of studies of ultra endurance athletes, but some of the best now. These aren't guys just like hanging in there. These guys are winning between 35 up to 50.
2:28:11You know, those like grizzly old guys and old women who are just amazing. >> Don't you think that's mental though? Like your your mind gets harder as you get older. >> This is exactly what I was about to jump on. So, I think there's a few things. One is capillary density, mitochondrial efficiency that you only get after like years and years and years.
2:28:29So, it's like when you're younger, V2, lactic threshold, elasticity of tendons, all of those things absolutely are better when you're younger. And that's why you see so many 100 meter, you know, champions and sprinters, they're always younger. But now, I think all of those things that you're talking about now, heat adaptation, uh, hyperbaric James, everything like that, um, hypoxic chambers, sorry.
2:28:50Everything like that is just trying to create, I think, now a new generation of older athletes. And we're even seeing it 39 years old, Alex Pereira. >> Yes. You're Romero 49. >> Yeah. Yeah. But he is he's off the charts. >> He makes no sense. >> He's off the chart. That's an outlier. He's he's an outlier.
2:29:06He's another guy. >> He is. Yeah. >> He's he's so unusual when you look at him. He doesn't seem like he's aging. It's It's insane. >> You know, and he's still moves like a cat at 49 years old. >> Did you see his bare knuckle fight that he had with Darren Till? Crazy. >> I know. >> Knocked Darren Hill down.
2:29:23Arguably could have won that fight. You know, it was a very close fight, but arguably you could have given the A lot of people online thought Yoel won that fight 49. >> Yeah, but we're seeing it across the board now as well. Like Kip Chigi won the very recent marathon. Was it Melbourne? I can't remember.
2:29:37You got Messi, you got Ronaldo. Messi has only just retired. Ronaldo, LeBron, I think LeBron makes no sense because everything that I just described there, your proportion of fast twitch fibers reduces as you get older. Elasticity of tendons. >> Yeah. >> How? So, I understand if you're Messi who's just amazing, his vision of the game and everything, he can sit there in midfield just spraying the ball, >> but LeBron makes no sense.
2:30:01>> Well, LeBron is meticulous in his rehabilitation. Meticulous. He spends an incredible amount of time, like famously spends millions of dollars just on rehabilitating his body every year. >> Wow. >> On massage and all different therapies and I mean, he's doing everything. And I'm sure he's I don't know what the rules are in the NBA with peptides and all that other jazz, but I'm sure he's on all that stuff, too, right?
2:30:22>> I mean, if he's not, I'd be stunned. Like, why wouldn't you be? That's crazy, >> you know? Why wouldn't you be on BPC57 and TB500 and and if you're allowed to be, you should definitely be on testosterone and definitely be on some sort of uh human growth hormone either something that pumps it up like Samoralin, which like naturally um makes your body produce more testo or more human growth hormone, something that allows his body to regenerate tissue and heal quicker.
2:30:50He has to be on something. M >> I mean I would imagine otherwise it's crazy that he could perform >> cuz one of the things that we talk about a lot or I talk about a lot with serial gone who's the UFC heavyweight champion is that serial has a background in basketball and I think that's a factor because I think his movement his ability to move his it's like basketball you're doing plyometrics all the time.
2:31:13>> Peptides are banned. >> What's the rules? Synthetic and growth hormone releasing peptides are banned in the NBA. >> Are they testing them? What is banned? Growth hormone releasing peptides, growth hormone uh secrets. How do you say that word? >> Secretogs. >> Secretogs and other synthetic compounds designed to stimulate growth hormone or enhance recovery are strictly prohibited.
2:31:37>> But what about uh BPC57? >> Specifically, that one >> BPC57 was weird because it was allowed by water and then it was banned. >> It should be allowed. All it does is regenerate tissue or rather uh help heal tissue. It's banned. Banned in the NBA. It's classified as an unapproved substance under the world anti-doping ay's prohibited list >> and follows broader anti-doping policies against unapproved peptides and experimental drugs.
2:32:01Listen man, there's zero studies that show there's any negative effects of BBC157. And there's a lot of at least anecdotal evidence first and foremost that it's very beneficial for people recovering from injuries. But then there's other also studies that indicate that it really is helpful for people.
2:32:20>> So someone was suspended. >> No, I was looking this up because uh last year this player was on the Lakers, Luca Donuch, very famously got hurt right before the playoffs started. And he went to Spain to get treated and did not get better. And what that treatment was was not really publicly talked about, but people were saying, you know, get him on stem cells, get him on BBC 157, right?
2:32:39>> Get him back in the get him back so we can play that. I don't know if if they are doing it. They have to take time off so they can hide, you know, from whatever. >> Sort of like Connor did when he broke his leg, right? He got out of the doping pool, >> right? >> Yeah. And then got jacked and they go [ __ ] jacked.
2:32:55>> Became Wolverine. >> Got super jacked. He looked like you. All of a sudden, he weighed 220 lbs. [ __ ] jacked. >> I don't know if he got that big, but point is like I think uh at least peptides that help injuries. Listen, you you're dealing with a sport where your primary goal is to create an injury on your opponent and you're practicing injuring each other all day long.
2:33:14Like you're going to get injuries and anything that would help these athletes get to the finish line, like get to the cage in reasonable health because they're always banged up. Like whenever you see even at a world championship level when you see a guy looks awesome, guarantee that guy's dealing with some [ __ ] Guarantee that guy's got a sore hand, a [ __ ] up shoulder, his knee hurts, something's wrong.
2:33:35There's no way you get through a 12week camp with a bunch of [ __ ] trained assassins and you don't get banged up. You're getting banged up. And BPC57 would help those people. >> But they're also doing there's a lot of stuff these guys are doing now. A lot of guys are invested in hyperbaric chambers.
2:33:52Um they're doing a lot of hyperbaric therapy which really does accelerate uh healing uh from injuries and just general just general overall recovery from just life itself. I mean it's Incredible. >> They were amazing for me. Like we were talking about earlier when I tore most of the tendons in my rotator cuff.
2:34:10That was after the Yukon and the doctor was like, "How how did you not know?" And I was like, "Well, I had hypothermia and I was trying to dodge bears. I had other stuff. I had other stuff on my mind at the time. If I was a doctor, I'd be so pumped to talk to you. I'd be like, "Whoa, like look, this is an interesting study."
2:34:29>> Right. Right. >> Like what what did you say? But but it was mu stem cells were were amazing. Then hyperbaric red light therapy. I did everything and that got me back to the start line uh ready for Iceland. Um I think without it I might have needed them reattached with surgery. So that's how good they were for me.
2:34:46>> Yeah, it's extraordinary what they can do now and it keeps getting better. And you know in this country there's this battle between pharmaceutical drug companies that want to they want to patent these peptides and they want to profit off of them. And then there's also a lot of people who don't want people taking these therapies because it will cost them money in terms of the amount of orthopedic surgeries they get.
2:35:08>> That's a real thing and they have influence and there's it's a real problem and and unfortunately people are willing to sacrifice the greater health and recovery of the entire population for their own personal gain. And that's dark but accurate. >> Agreed. Yeah. And if we were really smart, we would be investing an incredible amount of money into studying these things.
2:35:29And there's not just that, they're helping people with neurological conditions. They're helping people recover from like Parkinson syndrome >> or Parkinson symptoms, you know, they're they're they're doing them intraasally for people that have lung disorders. Like there's a lot of like really good work that's being done >> with stem cells.
2:35:47Does it mean they all are the same and they all work great? No. That's like there's shady places. This is also part of the problem. Like if you're traveling to some god-forsaken part of the world to go do this therapy because it's not legal in America. >> Okay. Well, you got to be real careful where you're going.
2:36:01You know, there's some places like >> the CPI, which is in Tijana, that's very ethical and they they do everything really great. But there's other places where I've heard people get infected, they have like horrible disease, you know, they they get staff infections and they wind up almost paralyzed. A lot of [ __ ] up things can happen >> when you're doing this stuff.
2:36:20if you don't go to a good place. >> Yeah. >> But it it the bottom line is though that's a problem with all medical interventions. That's a problem with surgery. That's a problem with like it's a big one of the main killers in this country. I think it's we we talked about this recently. It's like the number three killer in this country is medical mishaps.
2:36:40like is either misdiagnosis or bad treatment or some sort of a mistake that someone makes. >> It's a problem, >> you know. So, it's a pro. It's like human beings are very vulnerable and >> you know, so it's not a cure all, but it is a very promising therapy. And for people that have had incredible results, and I'm one of them, from stem cells, like I'm screaming from the rooftops like, "Hey, let's not just throw the baby out with the bath water with this stuff.
2:37:09this this should be you should we could help a lot of folks who have a lot of like real serious problems with this [ __ ] >> That's what they said to me. They were like Ross, you know, this would have been a death sentence for your career. You know, you'd have swam around Great Britain. You've just done the Yukon.
2:37:23You're good. You're done. You know, whereas it's amazing now I've seen it that it's just managed to extend my career, you know, just a little bit more. I think that's >> and just also for people that aren't professional athletes, just extend your health. Like so many people that have had like these injuries like a a good friend of mine had a knee problem and you know he's not an athlete he's just a guy who runs and his knee was in pain all the time.
2:37:42I brought him into waste well he got a shot in his knee. This was 2 years ago and he's like I run all the time it never bothers me now. I'm like that's nuts man that didn't exist before. >> Agreed. >> That didn't exist. >> Agreed. >> And I think this is just the beginning. I think we're at the beginning of this stuff.
2:37:58They keep coming out with new innovations and and new therapies that are even more effective. Muse stem cells being one of the greatest ones that's more recent. >> I agree. I agree. >> They need more studies, more stuff, more work. This is going to help a lot of [ __ ] people, man. And you know, we have to be really careful as to what influence we're receiving as to why this is a bad thing.
2:38:20>> You know, I think this is a real problem in this country in particular because this country is like so ate up with money. You know, money influences so many narratives in this country. It distorts reality. You're looking at everything through a funhouse mirror lens. You know, it's it's hard to tell what's what.
2:38:35>> Yeah. >> What's good for you, what's bad for what should be recommended, what should be never taken. >> You know, >> my hospital visit on that note was was so bad at the end. The rotator cuffs was also like the >> How bad was the food? >> It It was pretty good actually. It was in Canada in the UK.
2:38:48It was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Pancakes meat. Moose meat and pancakes. >> Genuinely did. Yeah. They gave you moose. Yeah. Yeah. and jerky as well. Oh, it was so good. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah, it was amazing. >> [ __ ] yeah, Canada. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> that's awesome. >> Indeed. America, you'd get [ __ ] >> Froot Loops.
2:39:06>> Froot Loops to recover. >> It was amazing. But we uh Oh, I'm going to apologize now for this story, but but basically, uh, during the Yukon swim, I had a specially made wet suit. >> So, because I can't touch the boat, no one can touch me, I can't touch land. Um, going to the toilet was obviously problematic.
2:39:21>> Oh boy. >> Right. Right. So you'd have like one of them hatches out the back >> is exactly it. Yeah, we had we had a poo flap made like just this zip. Yeah, a poo flap mate. So we had a poo flap made on the suit. Um it worked in training. Um we then we took it on the swim to to this day. I think we were honestly about 6 hours into what was a 60-hour swim.
2:39:376 hours in. >> I didn't even think about pooping. >> Yeah, you don't know, do you? That's what will the whole expedition will come unstuck because of that. We're 6 hours in. Uh, to this day I still don't know if the poo flap was in the wrong place or my bum hole is in the wrong place. But I end up going to the toilet and it doesn't work.
2:39:55Like what was meant to clear the wets suit doesn't clear the wet suit. >> So it's filling your suit up with poop. >> Exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm then faced with a decision and this goes back to what we were talking about your anterior mids singular cortex. In that moment, pain versus purpose, grit or quit.
2:40:08I'm like Ross. If you quit, you are going to be known as the guy who soiled himself and gave up in the Yukon. or do you zip it up and just and keep going? So, I zipped it up. I kept going. >> Oh, you're swimming in your own poop. >> But it was even worse. It was a It was a black wet suit as well. So, it was essentially just baking, you know, like a slow cooker.
2:40:26I know. >> So, none of it got out. All of it was in there. >> Um, I would say 90% remained in. >> 90%. Could you reach in and grab it as you're swimming? >> No. No. No. >> Clean out the No, no, no, no. There was no reaching. I'm so sorry, Jamie. I'm so sorry. So anyway, yeah, at the end of the swim when they're taking me to hospital, I I turn to everybody and I just go, you know, guys, and and again, the people in Canada, the team that we had are amazing.
2:40:51They're from the Yukon, you know, they kill bears, they gut wolves, they've seen everything. And they were like, Ross, don't you worry. And I said, no, guys, I'm going to apologize now. I've saw myself in my wets suit and it's been baking for what has been 55 hours. >> They cut me out of my wets suit.
2:41:03They cut me out. And they go, Ross, don't worry. We're here. We're a brotherhood. We've been >> They did. They did. They did. They went We're here. Oh god. >> And they bolt. So I'm left there with a flannel just covering myself. >> Oh, and you just baked poo all over. >> Yeah. So like I said, when they said, "How did you not realize you'd torn your tendons in rotation?"
2:41:24I was like, "Because I soiled myself because bears and wolves were after me." >> That is >> very reasonable explanation for why you didn't notice that you were in pain. >> It doesn't staff in any way, shape, or form. >> 100%. All kinds of stuff. Probably sepus. Sepsis. Who knows what that does to you?
2:41:42That's got to be terrible. You're scratching yourself and then there's pool over your butt. Oh, the inside of your legs. Oh, would you would you have carried on? >> Lord, I don't know. I hope so. >> Good. >> I hope I'd be as strong as you. >> No one knows until you do it, right? Well, I think that's one of the things that the kind of events that you participate in really genuinely does like it changes people's expectations of what's physically and humanly possible.
2:42:08And they all they all have to look at themselves and and say, "Okay, maybe I can do more than I think I can." And I think even though these are extremes and I think most people are not going to swim for 60 hours, what they're going to get out of that is this understanding that you're capable of so much more than you think you are and just raising of expectations or at least raising of the limits of the possibil.
2:42:33And I think that alone is like a great benefit to people. >> I'm so glad you said that. That's exactly what I say when I say I don't recommend my lifestyle to anyone. You know, it's a terrible lifestyle choice. >> It's terrible. It's terrible. But but I say that that's not my purpose. I don't think I think my purpose is people to get them to shift their barometer, their own personal barometer, just one degree of what they think they're capable of.
2:42:54Yes. You know, and if if if that's what I managed to do, then you know, I will continue to soar myself in my wet suit. >> I think you have done that. I think you have done that. So, congratulations and continue on, sir. >> Thank you very much, brother. It's very good to see you. Awesome. Thank you so much.
2:43:07>> Thank you. >> Always good to see you. You're a freak. You were one of a kind, man. I appreciate you very much. >> That was awesome, by the way. >> Oh, you like It was good. Well, thank you, man. You brought it. >> Yeah, but you crushed far more than me. I was trying. >> We're having fun. >> Thank you.
2:43:21It was fun. Thanks. Very fun. Bye, everybody.
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