In short · Summary by AI
Joe Rogan hosts UFC middleweight Robert Whittaker for a wide-ranging MMA Show conversation covering his career, family life, weight cutting, and fighting style. They also discuss fighters like Jared Cannonier, Manny Pacquiao, Anderson Silva, and Sean Strickland, plus training methods such as gi vs. no-gi and rotational core work. Whittaker mentions launching a fitness app and a move up to light heavyweight to rekindle his enjoyment of fighting.
- Whittaker says he has barely any time for comedy shows and reflects on balancing six kids, businesses, and his supplement line with a fighting career.
- The hosts discuss outlier fighters like Jared Cannonier, Carlos Condit's loose style, and Manny Pacquiao's unusual pre-fight warm-up and multitasking habits.
- Whittaker explains why he moved from middleweight to light heavyweight, citing brutal weight cuts, lost enjoyment of camps, and better nutrition at the higher weight.
- They debate whether cardio-heavy training should come before or after skill work, with Whittaker favoring fresh skill sessions and sport-specific training under fatigue.
- Whittaker describes his work in rotational core training after an archery-related back injury and promotes his Ascend Fitness app focused on longevity.
- The conversation touches on the value of gi vs. no-gi jiu-jitsu, the importance of switch stances, and the risks of fighting styles that are judged as boring.
- 0:01Comedy Club and Life Balance
- 1:52Outlier Fighters and Aging
- 4:03Michael Page and Point Fighting
- 7:06Happy Fighters and Carlos Condit
- 8:58Manny Pacquiao's Routine
- 19:03Sponsor Break
- 20:55Injuries and Warm-ups
- 34:30Dricus vs. Chimaev Wrestling
- 38:36Light Heavyweight Power and Styles
- 46:44Holland, Shamrock, and Diaz
- 59:20Hagler vs. Condit Training Styles
- 1:06:26Skill Work Versus Conditioning
- 1:12:00Gi vs. No-Gi Debate
- 1:23:28Breakdancing and Gymnastics Training
- 1:26:30Core Work and Rotational Training
- 1:40:02Weight Classes and Cutting
- 1:53:49Eye Injuries and Memorization
- 2:01:29Height and Light Heavyweight Shift
- 2:03:30Glover Teixeira and Pereira Training
- 2:14:10Strickland and Fight Strategy
- 2:21:19Bath Weight Cutting Methods
- 2:32:35Ascend Fitness App
- 2:36:12Mental Health and Brotherhood
- 2:39:47Australia and Comedy Culture
- 2:47:17Flyweight Speed and Closing
Comedy Club and Life Balance
0:01Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. >> The Joe Rogan experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY, JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. >> ALL RIGHT. What's up, Robert? Good to see you, brother. >> Yeah, what's happening? >> Thank you so much for having me. And I want to thank you for last night, you know. >> Oh, my pleasure.
0:19Glad you had a good time. >> the show was just unbelievable. It was my first time at a comedy club. >> Ever? >> Ever. >> Oh, wow. >> And um yeah, it blew my mind. [snorts] >> There's some good comedy clubs in Australia. In Sydney, they have the Comics Lounge. That's a great spot. >> Yeah, no, I've I've heard of them.
0:33I just never found the time to >> Yeah, oh, I get it. >> try and juggle it around. >> know how the [ __ ] you guys have time for anything. You know, and you have a bunch of kids, married, like an actual life outside of fighting. Like I don't know how you have any time. Like >> That's kind of the balancing act, isn't it?
0:50It's like that's why you see That's why I have nothing but respect for the guys that that hang in there and and fight for any longer amount of years is because life goes on around it and from when I started like 20, I had no kids to when I'm now married with six kids and mortgages and life, you know, you kind of juggle it around.
1:08Just balancing act. >> It's a >> That's what a big shift. 20, single, wild man just out there fighting. >> [laughter] >> And now here you are, six kids, mortgage, businesses. Like you got the supplement thing you're doing now with Musashi. You got your own supplement line. So, it's it's a lot of work, man.
1:26It's a lot. Lot of activity. Lot of things going on. Lot of balls juggling. >> [laughter] >> You got to got to stay busy though, right? It's like idle hands, especially if someone >> Yeah. >> And you get this like when I guess like with performing performance sports and like the the gear thing's kind of always over your head, right?
1:46So, you've kind of always got to stay busy, keep moving. It's like a shark, otherwise you just kind of drown. >> Oh, for sure. Especially in combat sports, especially when you consider the fact that even in the the the outlier and you only have a certain amount of time. Like true outliers in the sport, I think one of the true outliers in the sport right now is Jared Cannonier.
Outlier Fighters and Aging
2:05He's one of the outliers because that dude is How old is he now? 41? 42? Somewhere How old is Jared Cannonier, young Jamie? >> 42. >> 42. Still shredded. >> Like Like anybody's business. >> Still shredded. Still works out like a [ __ ] demon. Still has insane cardio and drive. Still wins fights in the trenches.
2:33>> Yeah. >> Like that fight with Gregory Rodrigues. He was getting blasted in that first round. It looked bad. Comes out wins it in the trenches and stops him. >> Even when he loses, it's not like >> Not by much. >> Yeah, it's not by much at all. Like when he lost to to Robo Robo Cop. Um It was like >> When did he lose to him?
2:52Did he lose to him cuz he just beat him recently? >> Did he? Was it Who did he lose to then? >> Cuz Gregory Rodrigues is Robo Cop. So he just stopped him recently. He was getting beaten up in the first round. And Robo Cop is one of those guys that comes >> It was like a kind of kind of controversial stoppage.
3:07I forget who it was. >> Oh, I know who you're talking about. It wasn't him. It was God, what was the What was the one that I think it was Imavov. >> It may maybe maybe >> Imavov >> Go back to that, please. >> Look at the number of fights he's had since then. That's the one that's in my head fresh. >> Yeah, I don't remember the one that was a controversial stoppage.
3:32I'm pretty sure it was Imavov. 90% sure. >> Michael Page was a bad fight for [snorts] him. >> [laughter] >> It's like >> Yeah, that was a bad fight for him. >> Michael Page seems like the most >> Imavov. That's the fight. >> annoying guy to fight ever. >> Oh, dude. Well, first of all, when he was at one I think 170 is really his weight class.
3:55And he's also another guy that's like he's 40 now or 39. You know, when he was at 170, [ __ ] good luck. Good luck even touching that guy. Too fast, too much movement. >> at 185, too. >> Yeah, he did. Well, I think the thing about 185 though is the grapplers. >> Yeah. >> If they get a hold of him, it's just a different world, you know?
Michael Page and Point Fighting
4:15Cuz that's the only guy that ever beat him in the UFC, Demian Maia and the way he did it was by grappling. >> Yeah. >> You know? >> And just counter striking, setting up his shots a little bit. >> He's just I've always said, I said it from early on that I think that that's a missing link in the MMA is point fighting.
4:33These guys who really know how to do that style and then learn the other things. Because that style is so it it it's you cover so much distance so quickly and they're so good at avoiding shots and then leaping in and they're so good at timing and scoring. And if you could score with one shot like those guys do, they leap in and score with one, if you're a good combination fighter, once you connect once, then the other shots can flow from that if you develop that style on top of that original point
5:05fighting style. >> 100% and like the the the huge factor in all this is like there's such small gloves. >> Yeah. >> touch can stop you. >> Yep. >> Like that's all you need. And that's kind of been my approach with how I my fight style is just to be be fast. Be fast. Just get just land my hands. Just >> Well, you have a very similar style in a lot of ways.
5:24Like you very wide stance. You have a lot of you blitz a lot. You leap in and leap out. Very fast and agile. >> Yeah. >> I feel like that's a great style also to like avoid that like some of these fight some guys like you see these fights where they just like [ __ ] stand right in front of each other.
5:40And some guys thrive on it. You know, it's like that's that's their thing. They like to just stand in the pocket and blast it out. >> But for how long? >> I know. >> You know who And tell me if you think he's an out He's an outlier as well is that King Green? >> Oh god. Super outlier. >> Because like I wasn't on his wagon, but then then he changed his name.
6:00He's like he started going downhill and like everyone was just like okay, he's going to just fade into obscurity, you know, let's leave it at that. Changes his name, starts piecing people up, starts winning by TKOs. And you're like he's back. I'm so back. He's 40. >> [laughter] >> I know. He's Well, he just has a real love of the game.
6:16He really does love fighting. He loves it. >> fighter. >> Mhm. >> Right? >> And weird style, hands down. And you think he's there and the punches are coming at weird angles. >> Yeah. >> He's popping you from all sorts of And talking [ __ ] the entire time. Like I can't believe this guy's talking [ __ ] to me.
6:33>> I've never understood guys that that can do that. Like Holland? >> Holland [laughter] is one of the best. >> I remember I was watching He was doing some research for the for the next card and he was setting up a basketball game with >> [laughter] >> with one of the guys one of the guys he was fighting.
6:48Like >> [laughter] >> it was it just blows my mind. I don't know how you can get in that headspace cuz when I'm in there I'm on the roller coaster of pain. Like >> Yeah. >> I'm just angry. >> Well, he's having fun. >> Yeah. >> And you know, you said something interesting last night. You said like a happy Robert is [ __ ] dangerous Robert.
Happy Fighters and Carlos Condit
7:06We were We were talking about Carlos Condit. And how Carlos Condit looks like he's always having fun in there. He's so relaxed. >> Yeah. >> And we were talking about his time in Thailand when he moved there and he essentially had over the course of like something like six years he had 100 Muay Thai fights and kickboxing fights, which is crazy.
7:26>> that's wild because Muay Thai is so damaging on the body. >> Oh, it's hell. [laughter] Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But because of that he developed this very loose, like relaxed style, like very aggressive but also just very comfortable inside of the octagon. >> Yeah, like he doesn't he doesn't get that kind of fight or flight response anymore.
7:46He just he just turns up and he's just accustomed to it. Yeah, he's losing that in that space. But cuz everyone's waiting I guess not everyone. It's like everybody that I don't know how to phrase it. It's like everybody [laughter] that doesn't drink and smoke before a fight is waiting for it to catch up with him so they can [laughter] justify why they don't drink and smoke, right?
8:10Cuz I guarantee you if I started drinking and smoking before a fight, I'm gone. >> [laughter] >> Like within seconds, within seconds. I'm gassing on the walkout. And then and then I got to wake up in the ER. Like that's just That's >> Yeah, that guy parties. >> Yeah. >> I mean, he's smoking cigarettes the day of the fight.
8:26>> In the locker room. People are like, you can't smoke back [laughter] here. That's crazy. It's That's a crazy Like the UFC staff must be bewildered. Like just to see to see him. And he's like, I think he said one of his interviews was, "I trained really hard for this fight. I haven't drank for 2 weeks or something like that."
8:45>> [laughter] >> I was like, "Yeah, good effort, man." Commitment. >> I wonder how much of an edge that takes off of you physically versus what it gives you psychologically to just be able to chill out every night. >> I guess that's the what we were discussing last night. What's the balance the tipping point for that?
Manny Pacquiao's Routine
9:01Because it's like whilst he's happy and he's loose and limber and you know, he feels invincible, like there are detrimental effects to all this stuff he's he's doing. I don't But But then fighting is a funny sport, isn't it though? Because it's like it's not like sprinting where you build up this machine to to run at your maximum.
9:22There is there's so many variables working against you. And like how many times have we seen just nobodies, out of shape dudes just come in and but know how to throw a punch and just win by starching people. It's like the Yeah, it's just a funny sport. >> It's a crazy sport. And sometimes if you're not worried, even though you should be worried, that's a good thing.
9:46>> Yeah. >> Like there's guys that are it's like ignorance is bliss. They come in just [ __ ] wild haymakers that shouldn't land and they do land. And all of a sudden the guy's out. They got their arms up in the air and everyone's like, "What the [ __ ] just happened?" That's crazy. >> It happens It happens too too often.
10:03>> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And too often. And then it's like >> Especially with the little gloves. >> Yeah, and I'm like and then I'm sweating and grinding away trying to trying to get better and you get these guys that can just turn up and just just touch of death people. >> Yeah, well there's that, too.
10:15That's That's interesting cuz you're a power puncher. You're a power kicker. But there's like there's people that have a weird power, right? It's like it doesn't even like Pereira. >> Ngannou power. >> Yeah, Ngannou or um you know uh there's uh Damien Pena. You know, that dude >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:35>> Yes, [laughter] yes. >> That guy That's Uber. Yeah, Uber got crazy power. Crazy power. Yeah. >> That Yair fight? That That last Yair fight? >> Blown out leg. >> Oh my goodness. And Yair? >> [laughter] >> Oh my goodness. >> Yair needs a psychologist. >> Yeah. >> He needs someone to talk to him and say we have to have strategies.
10:52Okay, you you're a seek and kill fighter. When a guy's hurt, you can't be upset that he's hurt and then try to give him some concessions. >> like he was part of an anime. I don't I think he was He was in his own show of like and there was rain in the background in his >> [laughter] >> head. There was like rain in the background and there's mud and there's sweat.
11:13>> Thunder. >> He wasn't He wasn't He wasn't there. And then he And then he like Uber [snorts] like hit him with that touch of death that he's got in that left hook, man. >> That left hook is a whip. >> Yes. >> Such a whip, man. And what's really crazy is that is the only punch that's available if your other leg is blown out.
11:30>> [laughter] >> It's the only punch cuz you can pivot off that leg. I mean, it's kind of crazy if you really think about it. >> He's got one option. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, he's got he's got one option and he just >> So, he's still moving around pretty decent even with the [ __ ] up leg. But then you see it like as he gets leg kicked, he stumbles back.
11:49He just can't move when he want like when he wants to move and he can control it, he's fine. But it's like chaotic defensive movements back and forth where you're you know, you're shifting oddly on your legs. That's where a blown out ACL really [ __ ] you. Was it his right leg or his left leg that was [ __ ] up in that fight?
12:08>> I want to say say his left. >> I think it's his right because that would make sense why he could throw the left hook. Because he could still pivot off that leg. Yes. Oh, you see you see it you see it pivot. >> And then like even when Yuri backs him to the fence, like Carlos has one punch there. >> Yeah, that's it.
12:30>> Just the left hook. >> One [laughter] one punch. >> You like it right here. You can see like Yuri's >> And Yuri's still IN THAT SPACE. >> OH, THERE it is. Well, Yuri in that like maybe I'm thinking about it differently because in that moment so that's post the injury when Yuri realized he had the injury.
12:48But in that moment it did look like Yuri was moving in for the kill. But you just you can't throw caution to the wind with a guy like Carlos because Carlos Condit could just starch you. With one punch. Yeah, that's where he blew his leg out. >> You see you see it go >> Yeah. >> wobble like >> Yeah, you see it like vibration through it.
13:06It's horrible. >> That's especially I think very like it's super vital as a light heavyweight as well. >> Mhm. >> Like the power of light heavyweights. And that's that was my head space moving in from middleweight. It's like everyone's got touch of death. >> Right. >> fights like a lot of light heavyweight fights are out cuz they're still fast.
13:26Still fast enough to land, but they're just heavier guys, bigger punches. And you just can't play games like that. >> There's only a few guys that are like smaller like Mairbek Taisumov is a good example of a guy who's been real successful as a light heavyweight, as a smaller guy. >> Azamat. Yeah. >> Azamat, yeah.
13:44>> Yeah, yes, yes, yes. The guy that lost to Costa. He's fighting him this weekend. >> Yes, yeah, yeah. >> against Reyes. >> Is he really 5'10"? Yeah, he's small [laughter] for a light heavyweight and doesn't look ripped. Like he carries a lot of a lot of but so skillful. >> Yes. >> He's so slick, man.
14:01>> And aggressive with his shots. >> When when you see Paulo Costa fight him at light heavyweight, you're like, "Jesus, how come Paulo Costa wasn't a light heavyweight the whole time?" That's a guy where it just completely made sense where he went up to light heavyweight and like, "You look like a light heavyweight, man."
14:14>> Especially with his like the few times he lost he missed weight and was struggling for weight cuts and and stuff. I feel like for a long period there he was kind of finding his feet. >> Mhm. And then >> Then he found his feet just in time to to fight me. >> [laughter] >> And he came out like with super cardio and like super quick.
14:33>> [laughter] >> Yeah, that was a great fight. >> Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I got spinning heel kicked. >> That was great, but you you were one of the few dudes that I've ever seen get spinning heel kicked and survive it. You know, like that's a crazy kick to get cracked with. >> Oh, yeah, I'll take it.
14:47>> [laughter] >> I'll take that. Cuz uh Yeah, [snorts] that's a that's a funny kick, too, cuz like it's so hard to prepare for cuz it's not a kick you can throw It's not a It's not a kick you throw very often. >> Right. >> You know, and and it's not one you can really train in in the work room. Right.
15:05It's like >> Cuz you can't train at full clip because you can't pull it. >> yeah, and how you going to you can't pad it up or anything like that with anybody, right? But um Yeah, it's and even I remember I remember being in there and seeing him start to do that that turn. And there's that one split second cuz I've never seen it before where I'm like, "What's going on?"
15:25>> [laughter] >> And then my legs are kind of doing funny funny things. So. >> [laughter] >> There's a moment where Michael Venom Page was talking about this crazy training partner that he has. This guy who was like elite in the gym but never quite could put it together in the cage. And he's in he's just sparring with him and there's this weird moment where he's like, "What is he doing?"
15:45And he realizes he's doing a front flip to an axe kick. And as he's realizing it, he just instinctively does that and blocks it. But it just completely on instinct. Like how why would you be expecting a guy to do a front flip to an axe kick? >> a rolling thunder, isn't >> Dude, but it's it's crazy. No, that's like a wheel kick, but it's similar.
16:08But when this guy does it, he does it to a heavy bag. Do you remember that guy's name, Jamie? >> Um got a video of someone doing it. No, I don't, but >> There's a video of him doing it. Well, that's that's similar. That's Miguel Torres early in his UFC That's who that is, right? >> I I guarantee you if someone does this kick to me, I'm taking it straight between the eyes.
16:31>> [laughter] >> But this guy didn't do it with a roll. He did it That's it. Michael Venom Page was talking about that guy. That this guy did The way he could do it, he could do it on the bag and like hit the bag with a front flip axe kick. And I mean, who who the [ __ ] can do that, man? >> Like I'm I'm blowing out both hands both hamstrings trying to do this.
16:56>> This is [laughter] not available. >> Facebook's video of the thing sucks. >> Yeah, it does. >> I know. Yeah. >> There's a video that he should There it is. There's the guy. >> He lands on his feet. >> Yes, dude. Watch that. >> It's like a Street Fighter move. >> It's doesn't seem like it's a real move.
17:12Yeah. It doesn't seem like anybody can do it. >> Fast as [ __ ] dude. Fast as [ __ ] and the dude lands it. Look at that. Lands it as an axe kick. >> Yeah. >> And he he practices it on the back. >> I'm taking that straight between the eyes. [laughter] There is no way. Luckily for me, I don't think anyone in the light heavyweight division is going to be doing that stuff.
17:34>> There there's the dude's name, Glor Botondo. Well, watch this guy. He's so [ __ ] athletic, man. This is literally crazy. Well, he actually he he Oh god, these [ __ ] pop-ups. >> He he >> [laughter] >> [ __ ] off with your pop-ups. I mean, I I there's levels, right? Like I've always said that if you can get someone who's a gymnast and teach them There he is right there.
17:57You can see it again. Watch Watch how he does this, man. This [ __ ] crazy. >> Yeah. >> That is so crazy. >> But it what What's crazy is like he lands and still lands on his feet. >> Oh yeah, like a cat. >> Yeah. >> Lands perfectly and then slides back into a perfect stance. >> Yeah. >> is nuts. >> My My knees are hurting watching him.
18:17>> [laughter] >> Dude, I hurt my back in the shower today. I worked [laughter] out I worked out I hit the bag I punched the bag kicked the bag had this great workout and got in the sauna for 20 minutes stretched out feeling great got in the shower taking a shower before the PODCAST WENT AH. >> [laughter] >> IT HAPPENED >> DOING SOMETHING LIKE IN BETWEEN my shoulder blades doing nothing just [ __ ] washing myself.
18:43>> [laughter] >> Age creeps up and and I I'm still a professional athlete >> [laughter] >> I'm still I'm still I'm going in for that title. I'm going in for the title so I picked up I picked up one of my kids and I felt like a twinge in my lat and I'm like ooh. >> [laughter] >> You just age age creeps up on you.
Sponsor Break
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20:18>> Well, it's also this I think there's these little micro injuries that you're not totally aware of and then you do something and they just give, which makes sense cuz I was throwing a lot of left hooks today and a lot of left switch kicks. So, it was I like I I think I was just a lot on that side. It was a lot of that side and so just washing, I went >> [laughter] >> It's just like it gives the straw.
20:38The straw that it's just so embarrassing to have a great hard workout, feel real good about yourself. You >> [laughter] >> got it in today. >> Strong as hell. >> I hurt myself washing. I hurt myself washing myself. >> the way though. Like I I uh pick up so many silly injuries just trying to either play with the kids for one cuz I think once you're over that 35, you can't go into a dead sprint >> [laughter] >> like a from a start from a start position.
Injuries and Warm-ups
21:06>> Right. >> Without a 30-minute warm-up. >> Right. [laughter] >> I need to warm up my hamstrings and everything before I'm doing this cuz I did when I'm And if [clears throat] your kids race challenge you to a race, especially if you've got boys, you got to you got to beat them. >> Right. >> You can't let your boys beat you.
21:19You have to. >> Last time I blew out my hamstring was racing with my 15-year-old daughter in Italy. I blew my hamstring [laughter] out. >> Fif- 15's getting a bit old, too. Like they're getting faster than that point. >> I know. [laughter] Especially girls. >> They're faster on their feet. >> Boys are all under 11 still, so I can go hobble [laughter] along.
21:37I don't need the full warm-up, you know, but it's Yeah, I that's I need a full hamstring warm-up, stretch out before >> I remember reading that Muhammad Ali would He would warm up for a full hour before his workouts. He had a whole system that he did. And one time I did this thing with Daniel Tosh for his TV show where I like trained him to take a punch from Manny Pacquiao.
22:03Manny was being nice. He didn't really hit him. He kind of like >> Yeah. >> just came a little thump. But anyway, we're in the in the boxing gym and I got to see Manny work out. >> Yeah. >> And he spends a crazy amount of time warming up. >> Yeah. >> There's all these like band workouts that he does.
22:17Everything is like very systematic. They're stretching him and moving him. He doesn't just get OUT THERE AND >> [screaming] >> HE STARTS REAL SLOW, GETS everything warmed up and >> I think I've seen it like you can get mesmerized watching his warm-up. >> Mhm. >> And then I think also his his ab program.
22:33Have you seen >> Yeah. >> Have you seen his ab >> phenomenal >> stops. I'm like a 10 crunches and I'm all right cuz cuz if I'm getting body shot and I'm not wearing it, it doesn't matter how strong your abs are, you're going down. >> Bro, he's a very unusual guy. >> He's an outlier as well. >> Yeah, in a lot of ways.
22:48You know, he's a really good pool player? >> Is he? >> Oh, yeah, like a professional level pool player. >> Quirky like su- super talents that people have that you know you don't pick up on. >> Pool is gigantic in the Philippines. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And you know, I mean, it is way bigger than it is in America.
23:04It's everywhere. And he has his own pool hall in his compound. So, he has a compound in his home. I mean, a full pool hall with like 15 tables and all these people running around and everyone's playing and they're gambling all over the place. Everyone's gambling. They're all gambling. And while he's playing, this is so crazy.
23:22So, he's playing pool and while he's playing, while his opponent's shooting, he's signing autographs. He has people just bring him [ __ ] to sign so they can sell it. It's like boxing gloves, pool pool cues, posters. He's signing things. It's your shot, Manny. Oh, he goes over and plays. And then, he's playing a game of chess.
23:37So, he's got a game of chess going on. He's sitting down, playing chess. He makes his move, his opponent makes his move, runs over, runs a few balls, runs over in between that, signing things down. This is exactly his room. So, look. He's got his chessboard that's right by the pool table. Then he's making shots and then he goes and sits down.
23:59And then, in the middle of that, he's signing things. It it's all it's [ __ ] insane to watch, man. >> watching. Like he's just >> constantly >> moving. And the pool room is just filled with people. They're all moving around. But, he plays real good. Like real good. Like real good. >> turning up with a glove.
24:17>> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Don't bet on that table. >> But, it's like he knows how to play. It's not just like pocketing balls. Like he gets excellent position. But, like I said, pool in the Philippines is gigantic. It's like it's a huge sport. And he's, you know, deeply involved in it. Like he has his own pool hall that's in the Philippines.
24:36Like a huge place. And, you know, they they do a big pool tournament with him every year. >> And where does he get the time? And then he And then he still works out full-time. >> Yeah. He still works out. Like he's still trying to fight. >> he boxed this year, didn't he? >> He did. Yeah. And he's trying to fight someone like world class right now.
24:53He's trying to get like a real like world class fight. Instead of like fighting you know you think when a guy gets into his late 40s probably you know have some like like Mayweather's doing. Yeah. He fights influencers MMA fighters [ __ ] like that. Not Manny Manny's looking to get another world title fight.
25:13How? Like >> Why not? >> I guess. [laughter] Yeah, I mean I guess he just never lost whatever it is. >> If you're playing pool and chess at the same time >> [laughter] >> Just study that guy's brain. >> It's not a stretch. >> And super accommodating like signing all these autographs for people like everybody's running over to him with boxes of [ __ ] for him to sign so they could go sell it.
25:35>> I'm so I'm surprised at how many fighters in general like chess. I know it's a tactical it's a strategy but it's just it surprised me like the the guys like I'll I'll go like I'll go to the gym and I'll train with some of the boys and they are just they are ogres with gloves on. >> [laughter] >> Right.
25:53You know what I mean? But then but then then in the in the in their down time they're just playing online chess and they're they're ranked like high. And I'm like >> [laughter] >> dude you're you're a knucklehead. I saw you open a can of spam for lunch. [laughter] What are you doing? And it just it just surprises me you can't always tell like judge a book by its cover right?
26:15>> Absolutely. >> I've thought about getting Do you play chess? >> No, I don't. >> Okay, yeah. I thought about getting into it and then I went on like a deep rabbit hole of like the game of chess and the art of strategy and then I realized like there's just too much to learn. >> Right. >> It's like the first 20 moves or something like that are already like in motion like everyone knows at a decent decent clip everyone knows the first 20 moves cuz that's what you're supposed to
26:38do. >> Right. >> And then everyone starts going off in different things and I'm just like too much for me. >> It's a long road and uh if you get addicted to it that's going to suck up all your time. Cuz you could just hop online and play people at any >> or your phone. Anytime of the day. You could play the computer, you could play real people.
26:56So, it's just too nuts. >> Yeah. Yeah, but >> It's just but I get it. I really do get it. I understand it. And you could like really underestimate someone's intelligence just based on what they look like. They just look like a giant brute. Like you ever talk to Josh Barnett? >> No, I haven't. >> Former heavyweight champion.
27:13One of the smartest people I've ever met. Super smart. Quotes Dostoevsky. >> [laughter] >> Like he's like off the top of his head. He's he's he's quoting these great works of literature and studies warriors and yeah, studies history, knows a lot about whiskey, makes his own whiskey. Like brilliant guy.
27:34>> Yeah. >> And you know, you look at him and say, "Oh, this is [ __ ] brute who's really into pro wrestling." >> [laughter] >> Oh, really? Oh, the athletic side of that sport is just Oh, nuts. Unbelievable. [clears throat] Like these these guys are elite athletes. >> Right. >> Like cuz you have to be.
27:49Otherwise, you'd kill yourself. >> And those guys are taking a pounding that people don't recognize because they're on the road, you know, hundreds of days a year doing these shows in these local stadiums. So, these people come out to see them and they're doing these big pro wrestling shows, but you don't No one thinks about the fact like that's real damage.
28:07You're getting body slammed. You're getting a concussion, probably. You're definitely getting some CTE. 100 [ __ ] percent. >> Yeah. And then they hop on the bus and they go to the next state and do it again. >> Right over >> and do it again. >> Right over the [ __ ] bridge. >> [laughter] >> It's crazy.
28:24It's so hard on the body. All the old school pro wrestlers that I've brought in here to talk to, they're all [ __ ] up. >> Yeah. They're all walking with limps and stuff. >> Yeah, well, before he died, Hulk Hogan I met him once years ago. Like I didn't meet him, but I said hi to him outside of a cigar bar in Beverly Hills.
28:41He was [ __ ] gigantic. >> Yes. >> He was huge. I met him again when he did my pod Well, I met him another time when I interviewed him for Spike TV. He was only slightly smaller then. And then I met him again when he did my podcast, and he was significantly smaller cuz he keeps getting these fusions on his back, right?
28:58So, he's had like eight or It's not funny. It's sad. It's [laughter] [ __ ] up. >> I just picture him like every time you meet him, he's just like >> Well, it's cuz cuz Think about the space. That's why old men shrink, you know? The one of the reasons why you shrink is you're losing disc space. >> That's why your body got shorter over the years.
29:16Yeah. >> Your spine is compressing. Yeah, you're you get disc decompr- or compression. You know, it's called uh disc degeneration disease. >> Yeah. >> But what it really is is just pressure. It's just all that weight, especially for weightlifters. They all have disc compression. So, his thing was he would jump up in the air and drop down on his ass.
29:35He would land on his ass and elbow you. >> Yeah. >> So, all that weight, 300-plus lbs, boom on his ass every night. Boom! His whole spine is going >> Yeah. >> And so, he had to get his whole back His whole back was one rod. >> In in recent years, have you fallen to your ass at any point like unprepared?
29:57And like >> [laughter] >> I like I lay there for a while. My >> [snorts] >> I feel it all the way up to the top of my base of my skull. >> Yeah, it's not good. >> I I can't imagine what sort of damage Well, I can imagine. You can see it. >> Those guys all get fused up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, they all do. It's just there's there's no getting a Kurt Angle was here.
30:14His whole neck is just what? >> Yes. >> Yoel Romero. Yoel Romero's neck is fused to his skull. >> Another outlier. Dude, you told me that when you fought him that you said it was like kicking metal. >> It's I've never felt that way. I've never thrown a calf kick and come off second best. Like [laughter] Like I I calf kicked him, and that was the last calf kick I did.
30:34He didn't check it. >> [laughter] >> It just hurt. It just hurt. He's just He's built different. He's just different. His body is just built different. That's why he's How old is he? 40 >> 49 >> 49 He just had a bare knuckle fight with Darren Till. >> And he should have won. >> Props to Darren Till for beating >> Darren Till for taking that fight.
30:54>> [laughter] >> bare knuckling Yoel Romero >> And he got dropped, too. >> Yeah. It's just >> Yeah. >> Big fan of Till. Big fan of Till. I think he's doing great I think he's found his niche. >> I think he's had knee issues, like significant knee issues over the years that are really [ __ ] with him when it comes to grappling.
31:10And uh I think, you know, what we got to see in his best in the UFC like the Cowboy Cerrone fight is his striking. His striking is very elite. >> Oh, it's >> He moves really well. And I think because of the knee issues, boxing is just a way better choice. You don't have to take into account the grappling.
31:30You're not getting kicked in the knees. You know, it's just I I just think his knees are pretty [ __ ] up. >> that's why you see a lot of like the older guys that that weren't really taking advantage of wrestling wise earlier in their career, but as they get older, they start like they start getting taken down, held down, beaten by decision, or take taken uh put on their back and kind of submitted there or kept there.
31:50And I think that's because I I I know this firsthand. I I can still do it because I just been lucky, really. But and genetically like that that's a thing. People don't realize like hard work hard work is >> [clears throat] >> will get you very very far, but there is like talent and genetics are a factor.
32:10It's a huge factor. >> Jon Jones is the ultimate merging of talent and genetics. >> Like yeah, exactly. Like you can't if you were going to build someone in a lab >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Talent, intelligence, and genes. It's like all those together. >> He He's He's the perfect fighter. Like the perfect fighter.
32:29But uh But yeah, I think as like as you get older, you your knees your joints start hurting, injuries are more prevalent. You can't wrestle on the mats anymore as much as you used to. You don't have that mat time. So that when you get in there with these younger guys and they take you down or they start pushing on the wrestling, you just you you're just not there for it.
32:46You know what I mean? And I think I also think that a big part of wrestling is what you do in the first second of the engagement [snorts] of the takedown. It's like how that fighting like that that that fight. That's why you see a lot of young fighters that aren't don't have a huge pedigree in wrestling, but they get out of positions, they keep fighting, they work their way back up cuz they're fighting and fighting and fighting, which is another thing that kind of dims a little bit as you get older.
33:12>> Yes. >> You know what I mean? >> I think there's also the protecting of your joints. Right? Whereas you're young, you just explode into things. When you're older, if you've had a few meniscus surgeries or an ACL reconstruction, you don't explode into things haphazardly anymore. >> You think You think about it.
33:30>> Yeah, you [laughter] think about it. You position yourself before you push off. Even just instinctively, you don't trust your knee. >> Subconsciously. >> Whereas you're young, you're just [ __ ] moving. You're just You're not even thinking about your knees. You're scrambling, you're trying to get up.
33:41You're You're [ __ ] You're not thinking of ever protecting yourself. Whereas you get a few surgeries, you get a few blown out joints, you start protecting yourself. And then there's these certain moments where you're like, "Look, I could explode, but I might not get the best out of it. Let me take a break here.
33:54Let [laughter] me go to my back and try to work myself back in a position to stand up again." >> Yeah. And that's where the problems come. Like that's that's how you get held down for the rest of the round and you lose that round or whatever. >> Dricus and Khamzat. Like that was one of the crazy examples of the gap in wrestling like was gigantic and Khamzat was the the absolute like worst case scenario opponent for him.
34:18>> I I People don't give it that fight and what ha what what what Chimaev did to Dricus enough like thought or space because that was unbelievable in a championship level fight to hold down someone like Drakkar Klose who couldn't do anything. And he couldn't do anything. And he's a big strong guy. At the worst case, you just flop around and push someone.
Dricus vs. Chimaev Wrestling
34:43You know what I But he just kept getting put in that crucifix and held down like taken advantage of. It was wild. >> What was the last time you saw someone in a championship fight defending their world title get put in the crucifix three [ __ ] times? >> [laughter] >> Never. >> Never. It's a It's such a hard move to get a guy in in the first place.
35:01To get a guy in three times. And a guy who's a [ __ ] bulldog like Trikas. That guy's huge. >> And And it's not even It wasn't like it was just in the first round. They just kept doing it. >> [laughter] >> Throughout the whole fight the things are getting sweaty. It people are getting tired. And he still just kept getting put in it.
35:17I can't I can barely hold people in a crucifix in a ghee. >> [laughter] >> It's like to do it at that like there [snorts] then, that's >> I know. It's like people want everything to be chaos and blood. >> Yes. >> Like you know that dude who just got cut, Farid Basharat? >> Yes. >> Undefeated. >> Yeah.
35:36Yeah. >> Undefeated got cut. And last time I talked to him was inside the octagon. It was the last fight of his career. He's like, you know, I was like, "I'm sure you're going to get another contract." I like I think I said that to him in the octagon. Cuz he was saying it's his last fight. He's undefeated.
35:51>> Didn't age well. >> I [laughter] I don't like that. I don't like that thinking that you have to be uber exciting. >> He's got a brother as well. >> Right? >> I believe and I'm not sure. >> Is that the >> Farid Basharat, see if he has a brother. >> got a brother as well. If that's [snorts] the >> The guy's very skillful.
36:08Obviously, he's undefeated. And they just decided that they didn't like his style. That >> Yeah. Yeah. Javid. >> Oh, he's a PFL fighter. Okay, that's why. Um they just decided I don't Okay, I'm talking out of school. I didn't talk to Dana or Sean Shelby or Mick Maynard. I don't know what happened. I I don't know.
36:28Um but I didn't like it. I don't like when a guy gets caught that wants to keep fighting in the UFC. He's undefeated. Just because you think he's boring? Well, put him in with someone who's [ __ ] exciting. Put him in with someone who pushes him and makes it a crazy fight. Like if a guy's fighting and winning, you keep fighting and you keep winning.
36:48Like are we saying that Hamzac can't fight in the UFC anymore because of the Dricus fight where he won the title, which a lot of people thought was boring? I didn't think it was boring, but a lot of people thought it was boring. >> Yeah. >> His brother had the and wasn't undefeated I don't think, but had the same issue in February.
37:02One and contract >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> with the UFC? >> Yeah, with the UFC. >> Maybe. >> had one fight? >> I don't know how many fights >> he had a few. >> In the UFC? >> Yeah, he went through Dana White's Contender Series and had a few fights. [snorts] >> Man, I don't like that. I don't like guys not getting offered contracts because they don't like their style.
37:23You're Everyone's trying to win. You're trying to win a fight. Fights are [ __ ] complicated. This idea that you're supposed to just be entertaining and put your brain on the line and ignore your skill set. Ignore your skill set, which is to avoid damage and to fight intelligently. Know when to engage.
37:41Know when your gas tank is on E and you got to play it off a little bit and move around a little bit and let your body recover. Like this is what the game is. It's winning. >> you look at your contracts as well, it's like that to show and to win bonus. Like you you get more money winning. >> Right. Right.
37:58>> Like >> Great example. GOOD POINT. VERY GOOD POINT. >> whole thing. If I could toast up my way to victory, I would. >> [laughter] >> I would. Like If I could If I could do what Chimaev does, like I'm sometimes I'm jealous of these guys that just can just wrestle. And just cuz they take no damage. No damage.
38:15And they just take people down and destroy them there. And then And then the longevity of that is much longer until like that that curse hits them where they can't get a takedown and then they never get a takedown again. >> Yeah, I think that curse is probably what we're talking about, too. Like a build-up of injuries and all these different things over time.
Light Heavyweight Power and Styles
38:35>> Usman. >> Right. >> He's a guy that that stopped takedowns. He's a good example of injuries as well. >> Very exa- good example of injuries. However, he did beat Joaquin Buckley. >> He did. >> And Joaquin Buckley [ __ ] dangerous as hell, man. And especially then. And Joaquin was on the rise. Did you see the Mike Malott victory this last week?
38:55>> that was cold, man. That was cold. >> Holy [ __ ] >> That was cold. >> Malott looks good, dude. >> [laughter] >> He looks It's crazy that that dude started his career at featherweight. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Well. >> Yeah, he was a featherweight. I think he looked bigger than Joaquin. I think Akeem Dawodu stopped him.
39:12>> He looked bigger than Joaquin. >> He did. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, he did. He's big. And you know, he looks like a real welter- well, until you look at guys like Michael Morales and you're like, okay. >> Like what's that? >> Morales is this size. >> He's not He's not the main He's like a special case. He's just like He is the perfect example of weaponized physique.
39:33>> Yeah. >> Like he's just He's young, he's hungry, he's He's a genetic freak. You can see it. He makes the sacrifices to get to the weight division. He likes to fight. He can bang. He can wrestle. He can You know what I mean? He just He's just there to scrap. There's a There's an ugly fight. >> And he's the biggest outlier in terms of weight, in terms of size.
39:52Well, another one was uh Ateba Gautier. He's another one that weighs 230. 231 was what he weighed before he started his weight cut. And he got down to 185. But he fought Roman Kopylov. And Kopylov stopped him in the first round. >> Kopylov has got good hands. >> [ __ ] good, dude. >> Good hands. >> He's He's slick.
40:12Jack Slack, who's a a great MMA analyst on Instagram and YouTube and all that [ __ ] He did a great breakdown of the the positioning and you know how Roman Kopylov was leading him into it and setting up shots and set up that left hook. There's a few guys who've done some great breakdowns, but it's so skillful, man.
40:31And that was like a good example of like a super powerhouse enormous guy who's gigantic for the weight class just gets pieced up by a guy who's just slicker. >> Yeah. >> And then Kopylov's not like a physically intimidating dude. >> Right. >> Like he kind of looks like a desk jockey. >> I know but except for his nose.
40:50>> [laughter] >> His nose looks like he had a fight with a bear. >> Yeah, the desk jockey that visits a bar overnight. >> Bro, his [laughter] nose is destroyed. But I mean that's just that's >> It was that It was that fight with um with uh Costa that I saw Costa and I was like Costa's found his feet.
41:08>> Yes. >> Like he was just working that body. He pieced him up. Such a good >> When Costa is on, he's a mother [ __ ] I think he went through a dark time after the Izzy fight. I think the pressure of fighting for the title I'm just speculating overwhelmed him. Obviously he had some injuries too because he had red suction marks all over his calf, which is a real bad thing to go into the octagon with.
41:31I mean put some makeup on that [ __ ] cuz Izzy sees that he's going to immediately kick that spot. He's going to go oh you got a problem with your calf. Nobody gets the suction marks on the calf. >> [laughter] >> And he he just got pieced up so bad in that fight and stopped and then Izzy dry humped him, which was hilarious.
41:50And after that I think he was mind [ __ ] for a while. >> Yeah, it was hilarious, but it was also oh dude, it's so dirty. >> So dirty. >> So dirty. It's like this [laughter] It's It's It was cold, man. >> Cold blooded. >> Yeah, man. Like too cold. I can't I can't be bad I can't be I'm that bad that much.
42:09Like that's crazy. And like Izzy's had a couple good ones. Like the the Pereira when he knocked out Pereira that second time. >> Oh, yeah, man. >> the arrow thing that's got to be one of the coolest >> One of the I think the greatest fight celebration of all time. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Especially when you consider what just happened.
42:25That [clears throat] that dude had knocked him out two fights in a row. >> Yeah. >> Two fights in a row and then he finally got him in a fight where he was getting [ __ ] up. His leg was getting [ __ ] up. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was not winning. >> His calf was getting destroyed. He's like, "This [ __ ] already got me."
42:40He said, "I was thinking to myself, damn, this [ __ ] already got my leg." >> He did that thing where he was wearing that leash for the for the for the whole kit for the interviews. He He had that leash on him. >> Did he really? >> He said, "Dude." >> [laughter] >> And then he took it off just before he fought like >> Oh, that's he was off the leash.
42:58[laughter] >> such a weave sometimes. I love the guy now. Like we're good friends, but he's a weave sometimes. >> What was it like losing to him by knockout and then coming back and taking him to the limit? Cuz we were talking about this last night. Your second fight, was it a split decision? >> I'm not sure.
43:16I'm not too sure. >> a very close fight. >> close. >> It was very close fight. >> I feel like if they scored takedowns like they used to back back in the day >> [laughter] >> I might have got my hand raised, but >> Yeah, takedowns don't mean as much anymore unless you do something with them. >> You can win off your back if you the guy on top doesn't do anything.
43:35>> That's how Bas Rutten won the world title. When he beat Kevin Randleman. Kevin Randleman took him down, but Bas was [ __ ] him up from his back. Just elbowing him, blasting him from his back. >> It was very controversial because everybody's like, "No, the guy on top. He's winning." But Bas Rutten was doing mad damage from the bottom.
43:52>> Yeah. Like it's and you also see like some guys can generate like what about when Holland knocked out Jacare off the back? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> That was wild. Reached up and hit him with the [ __ ] right hook. >> Like how? How did he get generate enough power? >> [laughter] >> I know. >> Every time I'm on my back and I'm trying to fight up, I get fed.
44:12>> [laughter] >> I think >> I get fed and then I gas and then then that's where I'm staying for the next 4 minutes or whatever. >> I've seen someone else knock someone out from their back, too, with a hook. God, I forget who it was, but he was in he was on top of someone or or someone was on top of them.
44:29I don't remember if it was his guard or if he was mounted. And he throws a right hook and the guy just like sinks and falls on top of him. Like it is possible. >> Yeah, I've seen I've seen >> Weird things are possible. >> That's why everyone loves this sport is because crazy stuff happens. >> Oh, yeah.
44:46>> Like it is just it is just a melting pot of athletes. [laughter] >> Like when Shawn Sherriff just knocked out Gable Steveson. >> Oh. >> Like in the first round with the first punch like a 2400 to 1 underdog. >> Yeah. >> It was a minus 2400 underdog. Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> Crazy. >> Like that would have been and you know there were punters that put 10 bucks on like just threw 10 bucks on.
45:07>> 100%. [laughter] >> And they're just laughing absolutely. He made a lot of people's days, but >> Minus 2400 is crazy and then he loses in 11 seconds. >> I was I was thinking after I saw him fight the fight before. Like he was a bit reckless >> Yes. >> ability to go in. Like in in especially in such like the big boys division.
45:27>> Yeah. >> Like everyone's got touch of death there. >> Well, he's also a guy who I know he is a heavyweight. He I know he weighs like 240 or whatever he weighs, but you look at him and you're like that guy can make 205. Like 100%. 205 is not outside of his wheelhouse. >> You don't think? Cuz he's he's he's leg.
45:46>> Yeah, this is Kevin Holland. This was this was also a hook. It's the only one I can find. He's talking to him while it's happening. >> Always. >> He's [laughter] always talking to people. He's the one who will say I had this dream when I was 17 and then throws a hook and knocks him out. >> Is that what he said?
45:56I had a dream when I was 17? >> I lost the [laughter] [ __ ] ear. >> Is it on right now? Let me hear it. Put the Put the headphones on. Oh, yeah. >> He said that was nice. >> [laughter] >> It's nice. >> What had agreed about that? When I was probably 17. >> Who would have thought somebody talk like that in the middle of a fight?
46:22Even Khabib talk and he talks a lot lower than that. Kevin Holland is almost screaming. >> Jacare is He was already BADLY HURT THERE. THAT THAT'S WHAT I LIKE TO FIND WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THAT. THAT FINISH WAS CRAZY. It was the first punch had him [ __ ] up. >> Yeah, he and he didn't recover cuz he was he was there for a for a minute.
46:39So it must have hurt >> of hanging out and hurt him bad. Yeah. >> But then then that the rest of it was terrible to watch. >> said [laughter] to Joaquin Buckley, he goes, "You got a booger on your nose." And then he knocked him out. He's like, "Hey, man, you got a booger on your nose." And then blap, he hits him with a straight right and knocks him out.
Holland, Shamrock, and Diaz
46:56>> Yeah, I I don't know what I'd do if someone was talking that much to me in a fight. >> Well, Frank Shamrock had a fight with Nick Diaz in Strikeforce. And he said after the fight he goes, "It's so [ __ ] up because this guy is talking [ __ ] to you and you you're like, I can't believe he's doing this.
47:11I can't believe he's talking [ __ ] to me." Cuz he's He's Frank Shamrock. He's a legend. He was a former UFC champion. Like a real pioneer in terms of like a complete martial artist. He was like one of the very first like complete Yeah. Man, I mean, he did the pancrase style when you're open slaps. [laughter] I mean, he was a real pioneer.
47:28So for him and Nick Diaz like, "What, [ __ ] What, [ __ ] What you going to do, bitch?" He's just popping him and talking to him there. You don't get to breathe cuz he's not hitting you full blast. He's like, "Here, put some Put some volume >> I love how he used to put put his hands down by his by his hips.
47:47>> He's just talking to him constantly. >> I I've always been the biggest fan of his style. >> Oh, Nick has a crazy style. It just looks so much fun. >> It [laughter] looks fun. He's relaxed. Like even while he's doing this, he's never straining. Like all of his punches are like 50%. Everything's 50%, but because of that, he can throw them for days.
48:10For days. >> And then and then he gets to that point where he's not even breathing and he just he's just beating on a guest guy. >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> You know what my favorite my favorite fight of him ever is? Paul Semtex Daley. >> Oh, yeah? >> Yeah, in Strikeforce. For Semtex had maybe the craziest power in the history of the division.
48:31Semtex would just put people into orbit. He had [laughter] crazy knockouts. And these dudes just went to war and he dropped Nick a couple of times. But Nick brought him into a pace where he was going to have to sprint for the entire 5 minutes. >> Yeah. >> And by the end of like 3 minutes in, you see he's like stuff he's like, "I can't do this anymore."
48:49And then Nick just overwhelms him and stops him. >> overload. >> Yeah, see if you can find that. >> He >> He's fought He had some He had some wars in Strikeforce. >> bring us up bring us up earlier in the fight. Yeah, but in the beginning, it's like you see the power of Semtex. Like crazy left hook. Left hook and a left uppercut would just put people into orbit.
49:09Just terrifying power. And >> He's one of those guys with power. It's what we were saying about like you're like you're born with it. It's I swear you're born with it. It's not like he's doing a gym workout. Like explosiveness routine to get power like that. >> your power, but I think the type of power that like Paul Daley has or you know, like a Thomas Hitman's Hearns type power or Deontay Wilder, he's the best example.
49:34You're just born with that. >> Yeah. >> That's you you got a gift from God. God gave you a gift to put people into [laughter] orbit. And this fight just is just this crazy example of his cardio. You know, Nick Diaz has swam back from Alcatraz I think seven times. It might be more now. >> I remember seeing that like he's really big even during camps like really big in a triathlon stuff.
49:58Like that's why how he stays fit like cuz you you can't you can't get this or sustain this level of cardio unless cardio's your lifestyle. >> Yes. >> Like this is this this at this point cardio's your hobby. >> Yeah, it's a different thing, right? >> Merab. >> So he's not trying to blitz people ever.
50:15He's not trying to hit you with one big bomb and trying to He's just cooking you. >> Yeah. >> And he's He's bringing you up to a pace that he knows that you can't sustain, but he does every day. >> Do you reckon that's what burnt him out? Cuz I swear it's got to be like if if every fight you turn up and you're like all right four rounds to go before >> [laughter] >> before I got you.
50:33Like you know you got 20 minutes of cooking a guy, you know what I mean? >> Well, it could be that, but it's also you got to take into consideration all the years that he's been fighting. So I've called Nick's first fight in the UFC in 1990 No, 2000 and one, I think. 2001. I'm pretty sure it was 2001.
50:55I'm pretty sure it was that was the first time I worked for the UFC in the new era, you know, with '97 I worked for the old era before Zuffa. And then it was him versus Robbie Lawler. And he was like 20 years old. >> Yeah. That was so good. Such good He had some He had some wars. He just got dropped so bad.
51:14>> It was 2003. Okay, that's 23 years ago. That's crazy. That is a long time to be getting punched in the head. And I think that is a giant factor. >> Especially with his style. His style was very much in your face. He's going to eat a couple, but he's going to give you four for every every one you land.
51:33>> Yeah, and he did a lot of sparring with What's that to >> I take that back. That was just the UFC. He did uh his first fight was August 31st, 2001 uh for IFC Warriors. >> And was 2003 what event was that? >> Jeremy Jackson. >> No, what was the number? UFC >> I would have sworn >> Does it say it? I would have sworn it was >> UFC 44 and what >> July 19th, 2000 or sorry, September 26th, 2003.
52:05>> Okay, so that's his and that's Robbie Lawler? >> No, Jeremy Jackson. >> That was his first one? >> was his next one, 2004. >> Oh, interesting. So, Jeremy Jackson was the guy who stopped him earlier in his career. >> Yeah. >> Who was a really good boxer. Yeah, there this is the end of it. Paul just he just couldn't take it anymore and the pace is just [ __ ] insane.
52:25>> He said it doesn't stop. It doesn't slow down. >> Yeah, but I think, you know, at a certain point in time everybody's time is up and if you've been sparring with pro boxers for years and sparring hard for years and training hard and fighting and getting in these crazy wars. >> of fights, yeah, the type of fights that you're in.
52:42>> Remember when he fought Anderson Silva and he was getting bored so he just laid down, put his hands on his head like this. >> [laughter] >> Like only only he could do that. >> It was awesome. >> Only he could do >> It was amazing. I mean, it was like even though he lost the fight, I was I was like that was [ __ ] great.
52:57It was so entertaining. >> Yeah, yeah. It's like cuz he he knew Anderson just wanted to counter strike and just walk back on the fence so he just didn't engage. >> Right. >> And then nothing was happening. >> I know. There was a few guys who figured that out with Anderson that if you don't do anything, he doesn't do anything.
53:15>> Yeah, yeah, which is crazy. Yeah, and cuz cuz he during his prime he's running through people. Before people worked it out and before there was like a ton of tape on him, before they they found that and before also Anderson's age and the amount of fights he had caught up with him, he was untouchable.
53:28Unstoppable. >> Anderson in his prime was in the Matrix. He was doing things to people you're like this is how is he doing it? And it was like they were he'd pull these spectacular techniques out of nowhere. Like Vitor, that front kick to the face. It was just like, my lord. >> [laughter] >> He was in The Matrix.
53:46He just saw things that other people [clears throat] couldn't see. There was a time and I always say that you have to look at elite fighters in their absolute prime. You can't look at them like B.J. Penn later He's my best example that. You can't look at the B.J. Penn Frankie Edgar fight and say that's B.J.
54:02Penn. No, you got to look at I mean, later in his career, you know. You got to look at B.J. Penn when he fought Sean Sherk. Joe Daddy Stevenson. You B.J. Penn when he was in his prime, you got to look at that. And I feel like that's the same thing with Anderson. Don't look at him past the broken leg.
54:19Look at him before that when he was just starching everybody. Look at him before that when no one could even touch him. >> And making it look easy. >> Easy. >> Like championship fights. Like finishing people easily. >> Yeah, and having fun. >> Yeah. >> Like having the Forrest Griffin fight. Like he was having a good time.
54:35>> Yeah, it's like that was almost dirty, too. >> That was dirty. [laughter] >> That was another dirty one. Some Some guys are just cold-blooded, man. >> [laughter] >> Just stepped back and popped him with a right hand. >> Yeah, and just like like kind of kind of mockingly like dancing around. Didn't he get told off once cuz he was he was mucking around that much?
54:55>> That was the Demian Maia fight. >> Yeah, yeah. >> The Demian Maia fight. Well, I think there's another factor in that fight. So, that fight was outside in uh Abu Dhabi and it was hot. And there was [ __ ] bugs that were flying around the size of a horse. >> Was it? I didn't know that cuz I can't imagine how annoying that would be.
55:14>> It was weird. Because you got these weird uh Middle Eastern bugs like that you never saw before flying around. Like, "Whoa, look at the size of that thing." I was like, "This is crazy." And it was outside. So, uh Anderson comes out hot in the first round like putting it to Maia, trying to put Maia away.
55:30But, he doesn't wind up putting him away. And so, I think he got really [ __ ] tired. And I think he just decided to coast. And then Maia was like kind of chasing after him and he was just getting out of the way and just doing enough to win a decision. Yeah. And Dana White was pissed. They got real because this is like a big showcase fight.
55:48They're fight First of all, even though the White House card was awesome, it was a lot of fun, it was a great night. Don't have fights outside. A world championship fight should be fought in a controlled environment. It should be an air-conditioned building. It should be All it should be a controlled environment that everyone fights in a world championship fight at the same way.
56:11>> It's a control. >> Yes. >> Yeah. What were What were some variables cuz I wasn't there. You were You were. [laughter] What are some variables we didn't see? >> Well, one of them was humidity. And Gaethje talked about that. So, there was thunderstorms all around us. Yes. The fight got delayed. Yes.
56:24The fights got delayed and they thought they were going to get delayed way later till like 10:30 p.m. But it wound up passing over us. Like literally like miraculously. Like literally circled around like They might have done something. >> [laughter] >> Start the engine. Get the thing in the sky. >> He might have done something.
56:43But >> [laughter] >> It's a good time to do something. >> Yeah, if you are. >> if you really can manipulate the weather, that would be a good time. So, um there was that and Justin said that in the first round he felt it. He's like, "You could feel the air was heavy." >> Yeah. >> That's a factor. It wasn't that hot.
57:00Like when they're fighting is in the 70s, I believe. But 70s with humidity when you're going at it >> Oh, yeah. >> That's not how it's supposed to be. Air-conditioned environment should be the same way for every fight. And that Abu Dhabi fight, it was not It was hot. I remember sweating in my shirt and we were outside and I was like, "These boys must be [ __ ] >> Yeah.
57:20>> tired." This episode is brought to you by RAF Real American Freestyle Wrestling exclusively on Fox Nation. Every month you get every feud, every match, every belt. If you love UFC, wrestling is where it all began. And now, RAF heads to Sin City for another massive night of action. RAF 14. And this one is all attitude.
57:46RAF's bad boys, Arman Tsarukyan and Dylan Danis, step onto the mat to find out who's the baddest. Plus, a loaded card featuring the world's best wrestlers and some of the biggest names in combat sports. No cages, no gloves, no excuses, just wrestling at its best. RAF 14 live from Las Vegas, Friday, October 23rd, streaming exclusively on Fox Nation.
58:12Go to foxnation.com and sign up today. >> I'm like I'm like a I'm like a heavy sweater. Like heavy heavy sweater. Like So, whenever I do like a hot session, like if if I have a big sparring day and do some rounds and it's hot cuz in Australia we live in it, right? >> Right. >> Um if it's like a hot day and it's humid, by the second round, I'll be dehydrated.
58:37Like >> That's crazy. >> I'll be cooked. Like cooked. >> You know Gaethje doesn't drink water when he trains? >> Really? >> Yeah. He won't drink any water until after his training session is over. >> Why? >> He thinks it toughens him up. That's just how he's always done it. >> He is super tough. >> He's tough [laughter] as [ __ ] Yeah, that's an adorable [ __ ] >> I don't know if that'll work for me.
59:02Like >> [laughter] >> I just I stop drinking water, will it make me tougher? Or will I just die? >> [laughter] >> I don't know if But it's like what we were talking about earlier, that there's this balance between like drinking and smoking and having fun and being like [ __ ] a marine. >> Yes. >> I don't know, man.
Hagler vs. Condit Training Styles
59:20>> Yeah. Fighters Fighters are special beasts, eh? Like special animals. Like >> It's almost like I wish there was Marvin Hagler in MMA at the same time there's a Carlos Condit. So let's see which way works best. >> Yes. >> You know, you got two guys that are special athletes, but one of them gets up at 5:00 in the morning and screaming war and running up sand dunes with combat [laughter] boots on in the middle of the winter Cape Cod.
59:43That's Marvin Hagler. And you have Carlos Condit. He's [ __ ] dancing, he's drinking, he's got a Marlboro, [laughter] and he's just going in there and [ __ ] tuning people up. I don't know. >> Like an easily that last fight was rough to watch. >> The Jack Hermansson fight. >> Yes. Yes. As a as a patriot patriotic [laughter] Australian sitting there and watching that fight was rough.
1:00:06>> Well, as a fan of Jack's, it's hard to watch. He's a great guy and he's an elite fighter. But my goodness, what Condit did to him. Like you said it best, it was dirty. It was just dirty. >> It was cold. He was just He was like an executioner at that point. >> He's got that step-in knee to the left side or from his left side into the liver.
1:00:27God, that's so nasty. He does that so well. He's giving you all these different reads. >> And he gets so much range on it. Like it's he he he like he fights almost in your face, but he's not there. >> Right. >> He's not there. >> You go to come to him and he just leans back and he's gone. >> Yeah, and pops you from across the cage.
1:00:47>> [laughter] >> And then calf kicks you on the way out. >> DC said it best, we were talking about this last night. DC said he's built like a mosquito. >> [laughter] >> Just all legs. >> An elite killer mosquito. [laughter] Just all limbs, long limbs, but the power. >> Yes. >> The Leon Edwards left hand, my goodness.
1:01:05>> That left him cold. That left him cold. >> he covered distance with that shot, too. >> Oh. >> He's so good, man. >> Yeah, he is. And he's so so exciting to watch. Just like just like Hoofi. >> Yeah. >> Hoofi just like I know he lost to Arman, but did you see the one [snorts] shot he threw from across the cage?
1:01:21like he covered like 2 m. Yeah. Hit him in the eye, his eye blew up straight away. It was so >> No, Hoof is dangerous. He's dangerous and long. It's just like Arman had the perfect strategy. The perfect strategy. Just get him up against the cage, land elbows. And the way he like went for the single, you know, and then you know, he's like defending, his head straight up in the air, boom, catches him with [clears throat] caught him with one and he was like out cold and he held him up to hit him with
1:01:48the second one. >> Arman's Arman's a beast. >> And rich. I hate that. [laughter] Grew up really rich. >> know why like he just he's he's my life my life sport my life blood on [laughter] this earth for my family is his hobby. And then it annoys me. >> [laughter] >> He's like he just turns up at the highest level to play and He doesn't have to.
1:02:15It kills me. >> And you There's this always this this narrative that we were told that like rich people can't fight. You the rich guy's son is never going to be the toughest guy. It's always the poor guys. >> Yeah, we Yeah, he fights like he's poor. >> [laughter] >> That's what's crazy. He fights like he grew up in the ghetto.
1:02:34>> Yeah, or he he fights like he grew up a super soldier. >> Right. >> You know, I mean maybe he's on the other side of the spectrum. Maybe >> Well, maybe he Yeah, he got really good training very early on. >> Yeah. >> And but also the thing is it's like in him. He loves it. >> Yes. >> There's no way you could have the kind of money that that guy has and fight that way unless you really love it.
1:02:57>> And get through a camp. >> Right. >> Like there are too many moments during camp I'm like F this. I need this app to go well. >> [laughter]
1:03:09[laughter] >> I'm like halfway there. It's just >> Well, it's also it's like he does those Sam Calavita workouts. Do you know those? Do you know what I'm talking about? Okay. So, there's this guy who TJ Dillashaw credits with a lot of his strength and conditioning and the the reason why he had such a crazy gas tank and Aaron Pico, he trains with him.
1:03:28Hamzat trains with him. He started Hamzat started training with him fairly recently. But, Sam Calavitta he comes from a cycling background and you know, like real scientific approach to cardio. And these guys do these [ __ ] insane cardio strength and conditioning workouts in a garage in California. So, you got all these elite fighters in this, you know, middle-class residential neighborhood.
1:03:51Guy [ __ ] lifts up his garage door and you got these assassins on your [ __ ] driveway doing doing like whipping chains and [ __ ] and doing all these crazy medicine ball workouts. And see if you can find some of that. They call it the garage. That's just what it's called, the garage. And this garage is just filled with strength and cardio equipment.
1:04:10So, they're all talking about it here. Let me see if we can show some of the workouts. Is he going to show it? Yeah, and it's all in his Okay, they're not That's not good. But, I know from Arman's YouTube channel, he had a bunch of it where he was training with Hamzat at at Calavitta's place. Along with a bunch of Juan Archuleta was there.
1:04:38Bunch of like elite MMA fighters are there training and it looks like hell. It looks like just complete holy hell. Cub Swanson had an interesting take on it though cuz Cub worked out there, too. And he said he feels like he had some of his worst performances when he did his cardio sessions there. And he thinks because it just takes too much out of you.
1:04:58He goes, "The guy just breaks you down too much." He goes, "There's like a fine line and I think he he passes that line." >> [snorts] >> So, they think just just in the street. I think the thing is though, if you're just doing a cardio based sport like cycling. >> Yeah. >> You know, obviously it's power and there's some technique to it, but it's not the same sort of give and take completely open-ended, you know, uh improva- improvising thing that MMA is.
1:05:30>> Yeah. >> So, you can't just have cardio. You also have you have to have the ability to have all of those movements just [snorts] razor sharp honed. All your skills razor sharp. And sometimes when you're broken down from strength and conditioning, when you go to do your skills, your skills feel sloppier.
1:05:48They don't feel the same way. >> Mhm. >> You know, like I I know like when I used to work out at Krauss and Gracie's place, one of the things that I didn't like, no disrespect, but one of the things that I didn't like is they put you through this grueling strength and conditioning thing before you would do your skills.
1:06:05And I was like, "Hmm, why would you want to be exhausted when you're learning something?" I get I think it's a good thing if you're try- just trying to get in shape and have a real hard workout and yeah, you should know what it feels like to wrestle tired, but also, shouldn't you learn all this stuff when you're fresh?
1:06:22>> Yeah. Cuz the idea is not to gas, right? And that comes from efficiency. >> Yes. I think if you're going to do strength and conditioning like that, it should be after your skill work. This is my personal opinion. I think skill work should be done when you're not tired. >> Definitely. >> You should learn all those sharp movements, all the counters, all the things.
Skill Work Versus Conditioning
1:06:41It should be sharp. If you're exhausted and your abs are [ __ ] killing you and your neck is stiff and then you're like It's like you're a little more labored with stuff. You you you don't you don't have the confidence and you don't have the like the the neural pathways of the sharpness. You know how sometimes you learn a move and then you get it and you finally get it.
1:07:01And then you're hitting pads OR SOMETHING JUST YOU JUST GET IT. IT'S LIKE IT'S THERE. AND NOW YOU it's in your head like oh I know that path. I know that path. If all of a sudden that path gets sloppy, then you start thinking do I know it? Do I know it the way I think I know it? Can I land this at will?
1:07:18If I see the opening can I go or will be I will I be a fraction of a second slow? Will I be a little off? >> And you don't want like if you go into these sessions tired, you don't want to get used to being tired. I know I know I know they they say you got to train for when you tired, but you don't want to get used to being tired.
1:07:36Right. So I feel like that starts you off at like a funny level. You know and and like another thing is >> What did you just pull up there Jimmy? >> I I just asked Perplexity if there's any benefits to hard or athletic training hard cardio before skill work and >> And it says yes. Let me see that. Let me see what it says there.
1:07:54Yes, there can be benefits but it depends on whether you're trying to learn a skill or execute an established one under fatigue. Yeah, that's true. Hard but the thing is you're always learning. That's the thing about like technique in terms of MMA it's like so comprehensive. Hard cardio isn't automatically better preparation for skill work.
1:08:08Fatigue commonly reduces the quality of sports specific technique. That's exactly what we're talking about. >> And your mental focus though, that's that's not limitless. Like It's if if I there everyone's done a cardio session where it's so hard you start to like your your own brain starts to try to escape on you.
1:08:27And you know and you you find it hard to be in the moment where you are because you you just you you're tired. You're tired. If you you take you take that into a skill session you're not going to I I personally I can't I can't work under like that because >> Yeah, you I think skill is for fresh people.
1:08:45Yeah. And and I think there's a there's a real benefit to like flow rolling. There's a real benefit to like like shadow sparring where you just touching and moving and it's just you just building pathways in your mind. But then there's also like a giant benefit to just breaking down the machine and pushing the [ __ ] machine to its redline and forcing it to recover and build a stronger base.
1:09:07And it's a balance though. >> I don't think like most it has a place and I do it as well. I use the assault bikes and and and treadmills and everything else. I I think though if you want to break yourself doing something it needs to be in the craft you're doing. Like if you want to get fitter wrestling you have to wrestle.
1:09:26You have to be put in those positions. If you want to see where your skills take you under fatigue, you have to wrestle to fatigue. You have to grapple to fatigue. You know like >> Well that's GSP's approach. >> Yeah. >> At later in his career. Later in his career he essentially abandoned all the strength and conditioning and just did sports specific training.
1:09:42Just did hard rounds on the bag, hard rounds sparring, hard rounds drilling. >> Cuz that that's also what makes your body hard. Like you need to you need to be used to contact and stuff. There's been heaps of camps where I've like torn a calf muscle. So I've done like the back end of it. Just on like treadmills and assault and like treadmills concept twos, that sort of stuff.
1:10:04Not treadmills sorry, concept twos, assault bikes, too many ski ergs, too many camps have ended this way. And it just takes a mental toll on you having to push yourself to redline right in those sessions. It's just >> Well you know that brings me to B.J. Penn's prime cuz one of the things that I've talked about a bunch of times was he didn't really do much sports specific training in his prime.
1:10:28For for camps he would do the camps with Marv Marinovich and Marv Marinovich who was a he's his philosophy was you already know how to fight. What we're going to do is give you the most insane gas tank and then you're going to go in there free as a bird because you're never going to think about cardio.
1:10:45You're just going to be able to perform. It's it was all plyometrics. Like crazy plyometrics and all these weird box jumps and all this different [ __ ] and every day just getting broken down, broken down every day. But, he would show up shredded and just just looking like an absolute demon. And he'd been doing very little in terms of like sparring, very little mitt training.
1:11:07And the the philosophy was, you already know how to fight. Like, take that thought and just throw it into this 6-8 week camp of insane cardio and plyometrics. >> Yeah. And I think that's where I've kind of pushed my own training in this in in in light heavyweight in the later end of my career. It's just It's like being happy, enjoying the process.
1:11:28Cuz I By this stage, I know how to fight. Or I'm in trouble. >> [laughter] >> Either I got it by now, or I'm not going to get it. >> [laughter] >> So, it's it's it's like we don't need to work skills as much as review, revise, and just practice. So, I It's like I do a lot of mitt work. I do a lot of like light sparring, movement, shadow sparring sort of work.
1:11:53I do a lot of Do a lot of rounds on in in the ghee and and and different position work. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> What What is the benefit you think in the ghee? >> Oh, you >> For MMA training? >> Uh it's If you want to learn jujitsu, it's I'm a big believer in in in ghee. I'm a big believer in ghee. It's uh obviously, it's different, but you can trans- a lot of ghee guys can transi- can transition from ghee to no ghee.
Gi vs. No-Gi Debate
1:12:18>> Mhm. >> It's very hard the other way around. You know? So, it's And I think Demian Maia was a big believer in in in ghee work. >> Wow, a lot of the Brazilians are. >> Yeah. >> It's a religion. >> Yeah. >> They [laughter] they >> The ghee >> For good reason. >> Jujitsu's all about the ghee, my friend.
1:12:33You need the ghee. Don't abandon the ghee. >> Like, people got real mad. I don't know, you weren't around back then, the the early days of ghee no ghee, right? The early days. Like, when when did you start training? >> Um Well, it would have would have been 2000. Like, for MMA? >> Yeah. >> It would have been like 2015.
1:12:52>> Right. So, in like 2001, 2002, 2000-ish was when people started doing no gi and a lot of the Brazilians did not like >> There are a lot that still don't like it. >> loyalty to the gi that was crazy. So, when Eddie Bravo branched off and started 10th Planet, which was 2003, it was very controversial.
1:13:14Like, what is this guy? This guy abandoned the gi. [laughter] It was like it was a real >> problem. >> Yeah, that sounds crazy now because there's so many elite Brazilians that are in no gi. They've kind of just like they abandoned the idea that leg locks are bad. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> If you did a leg lock back then in a tournament, even though it was legal, everybody would boo.
1:13:33>> Yeah, and you're getting beat up after it probably. >> Right. Heel [laughter] hooks, people would be furious at you. >> You know what's great about the gi in terms of in terms of like a jiu-jitsu side of things, especially like in like for MMA as well, is that you can't make as many mistakes in the gi.
1:13:49>> Yes. >> You can't It makes your positioning and your decision-making so much more vital because let's be honest, if you're an athletic guy, you can you can get pretty far in no gi. >> You can explode out of things. >> out of a lot of things. I've I've I've jumped into beginner classes and a really strong guy will still like shove me from from mount or from side guard cuz I'm just not ready for him to just bench press me, you know what I mean?
1:14:16It's just like these crazy beginner sort of grabbing >> You're grabbing a hold of his gi, he's not doing any of that. >> Yeah, well, you can't you can't make mistakes cuz if you get if you make a mistake, you they get gets capitalized on and you get get into a bad position, then you're working from that bad position.
1:14:30Like you're actually punished for errors, I feel like a lot more so. Obviously in no gi, there's there's plenty of that as well, especially at the highest level. >> I think there's definitely something to it. Um, Jean Jacques Machado's approach was very interesting because, you know, Jean Jacques was born with only a thumb on his left hand.
1:14:47So, he has a right hand that's a full hand, but he was born with just a thumb. So, Jean-Jacques never relied on collar chokes and and grabbing cuffs. His technique was overhooks and underhooks. So, when he went to Abu Dhabi, his technique went into no gi immediately translated because he was using wrestling based holds.
1:15:09He was a lot of it was overhooks and underhooks. Yeah, same system. So, when I learned from him, I did that. I did his style and that I was like cuz I'm still going to do no gi with Eddie. I was so I was doing no gi at 10th Planet and I was doing gi at Jean-Jacques. So, I just decided to do it Jean-Jacques style.
1:15:25And Jean-Jacques style was like the gi is great defensively because you have to have excellent position and you have to have good defense. You have to make sure that you're doing the right thing cuz you're not going to just yank yourself out of an arm bar. It's not like when you're sweaty and you can just kind of explode out of things, squirm and move real quick.
1:15:41You can't do any of that [ __ ] You're trapped. So, defensively I felt like it was very but I also felt like offensively I should just do all the things that I do no gi and ignore the gi and just except a clock choke. I can't pass up on a clock choke. If I can get the best If I can get that grip inside and I get that hand on the other one, I can spin under.
1:16:01Ooh, I love that. That's [laughter] that's a ninja move, man. I love me a clock choke. But other than that, I felt like offensively in terms of like controlling people, I was going to ignore the gi. I was just going to only only use grips that were wrestling based grips. And so, that's how I was >> the same and then my coach gives like kind of teaches that way as well.
1:16:22Like all my chokes in the gi even still just head and arm rear naked chokes. Like just like real the real simple ones. >> Yeah, the basics. Well, look at Marcelo Garcia. He's like my favorite example. Like Marcelo almost all of his victories by submission came from chokes. Almost all of them. He beat Ricardo Rodriguez in Absolute in Abu Dhabi with a heel hook, which was crazy.
1:16:47>> Yeah. >> But in all the other fights that he had, every one of the submissions, I think, was a choke. I don't think I ever seen him get anybody in an armbar. I'm sure he has, but I I don't ever seen it. >> Well, chokes can't be defended. >> Right. >> Right? Like in in a lot of a lot of high-level guys, you'll see let their knees go.
1:17:06Let their arms go. Like especially in fighting, especially in MMA. How many times have you seen like an arm like bust out >> Yeah. >> or like heel hook and the knees go. >> Dean Lister got him. >> And and they just >> blew his knee apart in his last fight. >> And then it doesn't stop the fight though.
1:17:20If if you're good, like you're good. >> Yeah. Until it's over. >> But choking. >> Right. >> Like you're not >> You go out. >> Yeah, you're gone. That's it. It's over. >> That was Marcelo's approach. No kimuras. He said kimura was a strong man move. You got to be strong [laughter] to pull that off. >> Yes, you do.
1:17:35>> So, his just whole thing was just get a hold of the necks. High high elbow guillotine, rear naked choke, anything he could do, head and arm choke, you know, whatever he could do. It's just get a hold of the neck, you know. Um he had a a crazy north-south choke. His north-south choke is excellent. Just he just figured out how to be like a master neck squeezer.
1:17:53>> Yeah. Yeah. And just find those right positions. Some guys are just good at it though. Like same same just just like MMA, there are guys that are that are born gifted and talented for for the craft. Like Craig Jones is a freak. >> Oh, yeah. He's a freak. He's a freak. >> [laughter] >> But he's also a guy who loves jiu-jitsu.
1:18:11>> Yes. >> He loves the game and being skillful and setting traps and catching people. >> He just he loves seeing the different things, what works, what doesn't work. Like he has he has his approach to it is so intellectual, but he's good enough to be able to implement it. >> And he's always having a good time.
1:18:30>> [laughter] >> He's That's the thing, right? >> looks like he's having a good time. >> a blast. He's the funniest [ __ ] guy in jiu-jitsu by a long shot. >> Yeah. >> Like there's no one even He like he's like a professional comedian. Like he easily, if he retired from competing, could become a professional comic.
1:18:44I really believe that. >> Yeah. >> The dude's hilarious. >> Yeah. >> When he had that intergender fight with Gabi Garcia and he [laughter] kissed her and she got MAD AT IT. HE'S SO SILLY. >> YEAH. >> [laughter] >> HE'S SO SILLY. But that silliness is like a mask that covers up this assassin. Like when you start training with him and and like you watch him train with like elite guys and he catches them and stuff, you're like, "Oh, [ __ ] man.
1:19:11That's slick." >> It's it's it's like so I've rolled with him and it's like you're drowning. It's just you're just wondering how this ends. Like >> [laughter] >> what he's going to finish you with. >> Now what's crazy is imagine Gordon can do that to him. >> Ah, that's >> That's what's crazy. Well, Gordon could do that to everybody.
1:19:29That's what's crazy. >> about this. I've thought like like how would I go about fighting those dudes? And I'd I'd be like, "I'm doing everything in my power to not get like grabbed at all." Cuz it's over. Once Once Once you get sucked into it, you can't play safe with these guys. >> Well, especially with Gordon.
1:19:46He's so good at controlling people because he just doesn't have an athletic base style at all. Like he talks about it. He says, "I'm not an athletic guy. I don't move fast. So all of my jiu-jitsu is control based." And it's also when he gets a hold of you, that's it. >> It's over. Yeah. >> Hicks and Gracie said this to me once.
1:20:04It was like >> You mean that >> the the dopest [ __ ] conversation I ever had with him. I've had a few with him that are pretty cool, but we were over his house. And we were watching some fight tapes. It was me and him and his son Kron. And we were sitting there and we're watching these uh these fight tapes and he's explaining what these guys are doing wrong.
1:20:22He was watching this like Mario Sperry fight. >> That'd be so cool. >> It was the dopest [ __ ] ever. >> That'd be so cool. >> said and he was talking about how these guys are a position. And he goes, "We all started a neutral position. We all started at zero." And he goes, "And once I go to one, I'm not going back to zero.
1:20:39I'm going to two, I'm going to three, I'm going to checkmate." >> And it was like so intense when he was saying it. It was like it would be it was like, "This is a fact." >> Yeah. >> Yeah, if I get you in a position, you're not getting out of it and I'm advancing to the next spot, and I'm advancing to the next spot, and then checkmate.
1:21:00>> And [laughter] when he was saying it, I was like, "Oh, shit." >> Yeah. >> It was the dopest conversation. >> These guys are like samurais of today. >> Oh, yeah, man. >> Like that that that mentality they have. That is the the way of the warrior. >> Well, Rickson was a true pioneer, too, with physical training.
1:21:14So, Rickson was like the first jiu-jitsu guy to adopt extreme flexibility, yoga, cold plunges. He was doing these cold plunges in the river glacial rivers in Japan before he fought in Japan Vale Tudo. It's in the video. You can see him. >> This [ __ ] freezing cold water and he's in THERE JUST [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> IT'S AMAZING.
1:21:37HE WAS DOING NECK exercises with like bands. Well, he was like going upstairs pulling against a tree with a [ __ ] a thing to control his neck muscles and strengthen his neck muscles. He was doing [ __ ] that nobody was nobody had figured out. >> S&C years ahead of the game. >> Way ahead of the game.
1:21:52Balance work, balance beam stuff. He was doing a standing split on a balance beam. >> Yeah, well, you you know, and that that sort of stuff is so vital for MMA because you're just there is no controlled position. >> Right. >> Like cuz you're constantly moving with like obviously the external variable is the opponent is trying to do things to you and you're kind of working with that whilst trying to do your own things and you're never in a position where your body's controlled.
1:22:20Like it's very imbalanced. So, doing a lot of these imbalanced sort of exercises and balance exercises where you're strengthening one one muscle or flexing one muscle or turning one on. They're so important. That's why I think I think you mentioned it or we started to just beforehand. Gymnastics as a baseline for anything anything is just the best.
1:22:46>> Yeah, gymnasts are so physically strong to be able to throw yourself in the air and land on your feet and move around like that. Like that dude did the front flip to the actual kick. >> Yeah. >> We found out with breakdancing. So one of the things that happened with the with 10th Planet was they started bringing in breakdancers and Eddie Bravo realized like, "Oh my god, Geo Martinez and Richie Martinez."
1:23:11These two guys were excellent breakdancers. They do all this crazy [ __ ] like hop on one hand and do like a handstand and do a lotus with your legs without even touching your feet. Crazy stuff. But that ability to control your body we realized translates directly to jiu-jitsu. >> Yeah, it does. >> So Eddie started like learning breakdancing to like help jiu-jitsu.
Breakdancing and Gymnastics Training
1:23:33Eddie's super open-minded. He'll try anything. He sees someone that's really good he's like, "What are you doing? How do you do that?" Like if someone does something in the class he'll stop the whole class. He's like, "Did you make that up? Did you invent that? Show us how you do it." And he'll have everybody go through, "Well, I do this but I find that they countered that so I'm holding it like this now."
1:23:49And everybody's like, "Oh." And then they'll study it and break it down. So he saw these guys breakdancing he's like, "Hey, why the [ __ ] are you so strong? >> So so again Eddie breakdances? >> I don't know if he really [laughter] got good at it but I know he was definitely learning some of the stuff just as a strength and conditioning routine.
1:24:06>> Yeah. Well, I was I was super lucky. So early on in my career like most MMA was still very new. So I the information wasn't out there today. Like today you can get a full information plan off AI and just and just find out anything you want but I was lucky to meet my wife as early as I did cuz her background is elite gymnastics.
1:24:27>> Oh. >> And elite gymnastics, like they're animals. >> Oh, yeah. >> They they their whole life is one long camp. Cuz they can't stop. Cuz they can't put on weight, they can't do it. Like it's just they're just in it forever until they're not. It is wild. Like every day is performance based. Like long hours.
1:24:43So, her mentality really kind of led me in in in in into my my craft and me in my early days when >> Did she teach you gymnastics? >> She tried. She tried. >> [laughter] >> She tried. Like and there's a lot like she was the one that made me realize how important a a strong core is. Like a strong core.
1:25:06The core is everything. Like as a person, I just been able to move and walk around and especially with the dynamic movements of MMA and fighting. It's like So, but she was actually the one that like she was my nutritionist. She was like my strength conditioning coach at one point. She was >> Wow. >> Cuz she had like the health science background and sports science background.
1:25:25And >> Oh, how convenient. >> And I was just a poor kid that could fight. >> [laughter] >> That's awesome, though. What a great combination. >> Lucky. Super lucky. >> Yeah, I I think a lot of people neglect core work. Like real core work, like rotational core work. I know I did for a long time and I just started doing it a few years ago.
1:25:43Like really getting into rotational work. Like a lot of like heavy cable rotational work and kettlebell rotational work. Man, it's just I was doing it out of necessity cuz I kept getting injured. I was getting certain certain lower back injuries that were like a repetitive use injury. And I said I think there's a imbalance, you know, cuz a lot of it I was getting from archery.
1:26:05So, I was getting this tendonitis on my lower right side. And what it is is because I'm pulling back with one arm like a hundred times a day. And I'm not doing anything on the other side. Yeah. all my stability is on this side. I'm like pulling back on that side and I'm locking myself in place and it started to [ __ ] with me.
1:26:22And so, I went to a physical therapist and he started recommending some And one of them was rotational [ __ ] And then as soon as I started doing it, I was like, "Why wasn't I doing this my whole life? This is so stupid. I'm such a moron." >> Yeah. Yeah, it's so it's like it's so vital. It's like It's like all your other physical capabilities get capped at like 80% and that that having that strong core just unlocks that.
Core Work and Rotational Training
1:26:43And it makes your whole body stronger. Just like living. Living is better. Pick up your kids without pulling a like pulling a hernia. >> Yeah, it improves everything. It really does. They say that like if you do those You know those hanging foot to bar moves? Just a hanging foot to bar. That improves your deadlift.
1:27:04That improves your clean and and and press. That improves the strength of your chin-ups. It improves everything. Just that one move. >> Yeah. >> Danaher's number one move. He said the one move that he says is a must, a mandatory for all athletes, you have to be able to do that. >> What what what what move is this?
1:27:22This the >> So, you're hanging chin-up bar. You're hanging and then you lift your feet up and touch the bar with no momentum. So, you have to be You have to stabilize it at the bottom and then pull it all up and stabilize it at the bottom, pull it up. That one movement because it's so core intensive, that movement right there.
1:27:41>> Yeah. >> So, that right there. >> That's like It's It's like it what That's why I have so much respect. You see those guys that like barkings? >> Oh, yeah. Those guys are crazy. >> They're like holding out full extension walking on air. >> [laughter] >> And just jacked. >> YEAH, JACKED. LIKE [laughter] THEY THEY MUST only eat salad.
1:28:03Like it doesn't look like you could burn a stupid amount of calories just on bars. >> But you are, right? Because you're building muscle and the muscle requires more calories and you're you're essentially like lifting your own body weight all day. Those guys do it for hours and hours at a time. >> And I guess like it I guess like having any extra weight would affect this the performance of all this stuff by a great degree.
1:28:28>> What is this guy doing? >> know. That's just went to their most recent video they put up. >> He's just got >> is Bar Stars. >> He's just using his fingers but to >> That's crazy. He must be some kind of a rock climber. That's freakish. Yeah, some of these do What is this dude doing? [laughter] Hey bro, that's Are you trying to die?
1:28:46Are you trying to die Do you understand electricity? >> This This video >> [laughter] >> Don't do that. Kids at home, don't do that. >> is terrible. >> How can you do that and not die? Are those not power lines? Maybe the power's out. He took a chance. Now's my time. [laughter] >> Maybe he did it probably and grounded himself and then went up there for the video.
1:29:05>> How the [ __ ] do you ground yourself holding [laughter] onto those? Just You ever heard like what it sounds like for those guys that have to work on those power lines? >> You can just hear the Yeah. >> Can you just imagine the kind of power that's going through those [ __ ] things? >> Electricity's scary, isn't it?
1:29:21>> Terrifying. >> Like I was an electrician for a little bit. >> Were you, really? >> Yeah. Yeah, that's how I That's how I started. I was an electrician. >> was an electrician as I was like kind of fighting on the local scenes. Professional still but on the local scenes. And then I got the call up for Ultimate Fighter and I said, "I'm going to take some annual leave."
1:29:37Went on the Ultimate Fighter. >> So, did you go through an apprenticeship? >> Yeah, yeah. I was a fourth-year apprentice. So, I was I was supposed to I was doing my capstone, which is the end test. I was going to do that and then the Ultimate Fighter said, "All right, come in. Let's go try you out." I went on the show.
1:29:50I applied for annual leave. Never >> Never went back. >> Never went back. Maybe I wonder if they had my job still there. >> [laughter] >> I have a buddy of mine, my friend Shout out to Jimmy Detilio, back home in Boston. He He worked with this guy who lost his face. He just had just some crazy power thing that just scorched his skin all over his whole face.
1:30:11Just got zapped. Just got electrocuted. >> Yeah. >> Something went wrong. >> That's crazy. Like yeah, electricity's just And it cuz it's not like the damage you get like there are heaps of people that can get electrocuted and be fine. And then there's heaps that just die straight away. >> Yeah. My buddy Remy got hit by lightning.
1:30:29>> No, really? >> Yeah. Yeah, when he was young. He was I think he was in high school. >> Wow. >> lived. But uh he got [ __ ] up and he woke up on the ground and realized eventually what happened. >> Yeah, wow. >> Yeah. >> That's good. >> That's [ __ ] terrifying. >> that's a good omen or a bad omen?
1:30:46>> Neither. >> [laughter] >> If you had to look at it >> It's not good cuz you got hit by lightning. It's not good luck. >> lived. >> Good luck would be the lightning lands 5 ft away from you and you're like, "Fuck, let's get off this mountain." Bad luck is you get hit by lightning but worse luck is you die.
1:31:03>> Yeah, I think bad luck would be turning into some charcoal. >> I wonder like is it just like sometimes you live because like sometimes you don't get a full blast like one of them blast that like cuts a tree in half. You've seen those? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. >> I guess that kills you.
1:31:17That seems like that would kill you. >> I think I think >> [laughter] >> I think the lightning has a lot of voltage, not a lot of current. Or it can. >> As an electrician, you can illuminate us on this. >> that kills you. >> Oh, interesting. What is the difference? >> I think >> Um Oh, well. I can't I can't tell you right now.
1:31:43>> Well, you were looking pretty smart 5 minutes ago. >> [laughter] >> I've been been out of the game for a little bit. >> I I just >> For a hot minute. >> I think I It's probably you have a heart attack. Like that's probably what it does to a lot of people. >> it burns you, obviously. >> Obviously. >> Mhm.
1:31:57>> Yeah, I think it probably just short circuits your entire system. Just >> Yeah. Well, that's what a Dfib's like, right? It's like literally trying to short circuit your heart back. >> Have you ever seen a video this is one guy he's I think he's in his driveway. He's walking down the driveway. He gets hit by lightning.
1:32:12Falls the ground. Goes out. Wakes up. Starts walking again. Gets hit again. >> [laughter] >> Two kids hit twice. Like what are the [ __ ] odds? >> I hope it's real. >> Once you say what are the odds, the odds are very low. So, I think it's not real, but >> Well, it's an old video. The only reason why I don't think it's AI it could be fake.
1:32:33>> You pissed someone off to get hit by lightning twice. >> You cheated on your taxes. >> [laughter] >> You did some fraud. If you're not going straight to confession afterwards >> Yeah, you stole something. Something, [laughter] man. >> You kicked a cat when no one was watching. Like >> The two strikes and catching it on video are like impossible.
1:32:53>> Well, I thought it was a security camera. I thought it was in his driveway. >> People fake that all the time. >> No, no, no. Those are all real. No, those are all real, Jamie. Shut the [ __ ] up, Jamie. >> he got back up and was about to get hit again. >> I don't think that's the guy. >> No, this is people fake this all the time.
1:33:05That's how they do >> can kill that guy with a balloon. That guy is not getting hit by lightning and living. >> [laughter] >> Look at him. He's got scorch marks. >> Oh, [ __ ] off. HE'S GOT SCORCH MARKS. >> [laughter] >> I THINK HE falls down, too. [ __ ] ass fake fall. >> actually is not getting hit twice.
1:33:19This is a more recent one, but >> That probably is real. I'm just kidding. >> I get sucked into these videos all the time. >> If you got hit by lightning and I'm mocking you. We're just having fun. It's all love. >> I'm sorry. We're just joking around, sir. >> If that really was [laughter] I I hope he really didn't get hit by lightning.
1:33:35I hope he faked it cuz it's not funny. Getting hit by lightning is not funny. >> live, it's all right. >> [laughter] >> If he died, it would have been bad. >> is the guy. >> Yeah, that's him. >> Shut up, Jamie. >> [laughter] >> This is real. You don't know [ __ ] Jamie. This is real. So, the guy gets up and he starts walking.
1:33:54Now, watch this. He gets hit again. I'm pretty sure this is real, Jamie. >> is having the unluckiest day of his life. >> [laughter] >> Bro, that's real. >> That's as real as the baby Jesus. >> He's been struck twice. >> It's real. [laughter] Jamie. >> Watch him get struck a THIRD TIME. >> COME ON, JAMIE.
1:34:14>> Tune in next week. >> SHUT UP. WHY ARE YOU RUINING EVERYTHING? >> [laughter] >> I THINK THAT ONE'S REAL. >> YEAH, THAT ONE'S REAL. >> [laughter]
1:34:29>> WE GOT THE ONE hit on only time. >> Oh my goodness. >> It's a [ __ ] up way to go. It's a [ __ ] up way to go. >> Yeah, it's just >> pair of smoking shoes. >> That's why tasers are wild. Like, you ever see like a dude who's like methed up and gets tased and he just starts screaming and pulls the things out of his body?
1:34:43>> Yeah, they're There's like six six cops and they're JUST LIKE TOO >> [laughter] >> HE'S IN THAT HULK RAGE MOMENT LIKE >> YEAH, but some people they just >> [laughter] >> shut off and go straight down to the ground. >> I want to in in in my head canon I'm that like I just rip it off I take it I'm probably just like >> I'm pretty sure I fall down.
1:35:05I'm sure I'd fall down stairs as a board. I fall down immediately. >> [laughter] >> It's you know what it's not even getting that far. I'm putting my hands I'm standing all like what am I doing? >> Yeah, don't tase me. I'm happy to comply. >> [laughter] >> [ __ ] >> Yeah, it's just like some people like Dana White on his show Dana White's looking for a fight they all got tased once.
1:35:27>> Oh. >> Yeah, it was him >> I was going to ask if you have done it cuz >> No. >> seems like a crazy thing. >> No, I'm not interested. [laughter] I'm not interested in getting [ __ ] tased. That seems ridiculous. That doesn't seem fun at all. It's just like I don't want to have a heart attack either.
1:35:38Like what if what if you get a heart attack? >> Cuz cuz it can happen. >> I think it can. >> This is a tough situation. This guy is not >> Yeah. Complying. >> Yeah. >> He's pretty jacked, too. >> Dude, look at the size of Oh, no. He's He's ex-army. I think I've seen this. He's like ex-Navy SEALs or something.
1:35:52Like and he's got like PTSD. >> Yeah, he's having a problem and he's barefoot. >> Yeah. >> He's earthing. >> It doesn't work. You better run. >> And and you know what's crazy? Like he's a big unit, too. >> Yeah, he's a big [ __ ] >> And why why did they send four women cops to deal with him? >> I like how he's still holding his phone, too.
1:36:11>> Did you see what he just said? >> [laughter] >> What he say? >> Tase me all day. I love pain. >> Oh, fun. >> Some people are just built different. >> Yeah, I don't understand that. So, is some people's body cuz I thought it didn't until I saw a few of these guys online, my original ignorant thought was once they tase you, you get zapped no matter how tough you are.
1:36:31>> you going >> Everything just fall down. That's it. No, apparently not. Apparently some people are like, "Fuck this." >> Yeah, that guy didn't even seem bothered by it. >> No, didn't didn't flinch. >> That that's crazy. Let me see that again. Let me see him get tased. >> [laughter] >> You sure that's real?
1:36:46I think the lightning is real and that one's fake. >> Jamie, I think you're right. How [laughter] about that? >> I want to see this guy get struck by lightning. >> I don't know. It's called pain tolerance, he said. >> I don't reckon he takes a knee if he gets struck by lightning. >> tased him yet. >> At that point they did.
1:37:03>> Where did they tase him? >> Let me see. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, you can see him spaz out and react. >> You You You know what is funny? When when >> They might not have gone in into him, that was also the thing. Cuz if you pull it out that easy >> When the guys like try to make a leg for it, they try to try to make a bolt for it and [laughter] they get hit >> Yeah, that's fun.
1:37:21Those are fun. It says he said, "Get down on the ground." He goes, "Negative." That's not good. >> [laughter] >> That's not good. He's He's being salty. >> this in. I'm like, "We're going to I'm going to need back up." >> Well, he's just depending upon them not shooting him. That's the problem. It's like >> think he cares, either.
1:37:40>> Well, he should definitely care about [laughter] that. Cuz I don't care how tough you are. Guy unloads his magazine into you, you're going to be dead. Yeah, I mean, I don't He's depending on them Well, who knows what the [ __ ] scenario was? I don't know what Maybe he's right. Who [ __ ] knows? Sometimes people get pulled over for [ __ ] reasons and they're they're right to get pissed off.
1:37:59I don't know what happened there. But, from my own observation, looks like the the man's a tad unhinged. >> [laughter] >> And he's He's too big to be unhinged. He's a monster of a man. He was I was getting real Struve vibes. Stefan Struve. >> [laughter] >> Right, right, right. >> Struve vibes from that guy.
1:38:20>> Stefan Struve, forgot about him. Yeah. There's a few of those guys that fought in the UFC that are just so [ __ ] tall. Remember Semmy Schilt? >> No. >> Semmy Schilt, elite kickboxer, K-1 champion in from Holland. Nasty front kick. 7 ft tall. >> Yeah. >> He was so big. He was just ridiculously tall.
1:38:37And he just would step forward and and throw these front kicks and [ __ ] you up with them. >> Yeah. That's I feel like I would have been such a good tall fighter. I've [laughter] got You know what I mean? If I just had like an extra foot or It just give me an extra inch, I reckon I could have I could have did some really cool things.
1:38:56>> to stay at 170? Like, what was your 170 cut like? >> Oh, it was nightmarish. It would be It's a sort of It's a sort of thing >> [gasps] >> Obviously, when I started when I was at 170, I was I started when I was a teenager, so I started at 18, and then I went I was thinking I was 170 until about 23.
1:39:16And it was just getting harder and harder, you know, as as you age, you just get bigger and bigger. And I've I've always been like a naturally heavy guy, heavy-set guy. I think it's the my moldy genes. And the last weight cut I did was 7.4 kilos on the day. >> Ooh. >> So, that's How many pounds is that?
1:39:36>> 16 lbs? 17 lbs? What is that? >> Yeah. >> That's It's In [clears throat] one day? >> Yeah, like morning off. >> Yeah. So, that was What year was this? >> Sure, I would have been 24. 24, so what, 2000 >> So, you had like >> 2000 >> great performances at welterweight, like really promising performances, but for sure when you went up to 85, that's when you became Robert Whittaker.
1:40:00That's when you really became a middleweight. >> Yeah, it's [clears throat] like you had found the sweet spot. >> Yeah. >> And some people there's that the the gaps are so enormous between weight classes, which I think is a real problem. >> Yep. >> 15 lb is a lot of weight. >> Yeah. >> In boxing, that would be three or four weight classes.
Weight Classes and Cutting
1:40:18>> Yep. >> Whereas in MMA, it's one. And the 70 to 85 gap is big, but the 85 to 205 gap is bananas. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it is. It is. But, I was I was always kind of cutting down from a 205er to 85, and it just get it just got harder and harder. You know what I mean? And especially with cuz I've been I've been fortunate and blessed enough to fight for a long career.
1:40:41And I've had I've been able to have a ton of fights. So, to you just kind of get sick of cutting weight constantly. You get sick of And then and the camps themselves are tricky because like you're you're trying to fuel yourself for the sessions, but you can't eat too much. >> Right. >> And food is a direct link to like recovery >> Yeah.
1:41:01>> and performance. >> Yeah. >> So, that that was a one of the biggest things I noticed moving up to to like heavyweight was just the camps were just so much better. Cuz I can just eat I can eat carbs. I can eat carbs. I can just fuel my body, you know? And uh like my body was stronger during the camp.
1:41:15I had more energy during the camps. Like I didn't really I the weight cuts were kind of the same cuz I still wanted to have some size and have some weight behind me. So, I still I still made the weight cut. It's not like I just walked into it. >> But, your body is more or less filling into its natural state >> Yes.
1:41:31>> rather than staying in its constantly depleted state. >> Exactly. >> Like especially at once like at 170, what did you walk around at? >> I want to say it would have been like 90 4-ish kilos. 92-ish kilos. >> What is that, Jamie? >> Oh, 90 what? 90 >> One >> 90 Wait, about 198 something like >> 198.
1:41:52So, close close to 200 lbs. So, close to 30 lbs of cutting. >> Yeah. >> That's a lot. >> Yeah. And and then as well as because I've been in the game for so long and you understand better than most that there's life going on around you. I don't know what it was because the the last the last few middleweight camps I had did not enjoy them.
1:42:11The the cut, the diet, the the the training, fatigue. I got a bunch of kids at home. Trying to hang out with six kids when I'm this fatigued. Starving. It was just >> You kind of get sick of it. You get burnt out a little bit from from from that style thing. And one one one of the big things that I don't know why.
1:42:30It seems like a small thing, but one of the big things that made >> He's like sad. >> Was that I went I went to my cupboard and nothing fits. Because like I get I get fitted for suits when I'm like trim, when I'm lean, when I my shorts are in So, like if I'm walking around my normal weight, I don't have clothes.
1:42:50>> [laughter] >> And I know how stupid that sounds, how little that is, but it made me sad. It's like at the end of this career that I've had, like I've been in the UFC for 15 years. End of my career, I'm going to HAVE NO CLOTHES. >> [laughter] >> AND IT MADE ME I WAS LIKE I WAS UPSET. I was like >> That's hilarious.
1:43:11>> Man, it was just It doesn't really make sense, but it it it made sense to me. It made me upset. That's why That's another thing where I was like I got to I want to go I want to walk around and have clothes. I want to I want [laughter] to I want I want to something to show for this. >> Don't you think that MMA would be [clears throat] better in general if there was a way to stop weight cutting?
1:43:30Just avoid it. And then you fight at what you actually weigh when you're at your healthiest. You'd have to have way more options for weight classes for sure. And there would have to be some way to monitor to make sure the people aren't dehydrating themselves. Almost like, you know how we're talking about how drug-free sport or USADA could just randomly drug test you.
1:43:47They show up and drug test. They should be able to randomly weigh you. They show up. Just here, get down in your underwear, get on the scale. Oh, you're fighting at 170, but you weigh 208. That's not right. But then you should be fighting at 205. >> But then that takes away a lot of free agency from the athlete.
1:44:05Like >> Does it though? Because you could change your body weight if you so choose, right? Like you see a lot of these like um you know, they like Dave Bautista, the the wrestler, who's enormous at one point in time. Now he's slimming down and getting shredded so he could take on more roles, more complex acting roles.
1:44:25That could be done. Like you could do that as a professional fighter as well. You could do a lot more cardio and get your body down to a healthy level of whatever it is. Whatever whatever weight class you're at your best. >> But when then when you jump on that family holiday, that family cruise, you're at the salad bar the entire time.
1:44:42That doesn't sound super fun. >> That doesn't sound super fun, but I mean I don't think I don't advocate that. I'm saying be healthy and eat food, but be at a weight that's a real like if everybody just fought at the weight they are when they're in shape and eating the adequate amount of food to to fuel you, like a real full meal, like full meals every session, eating fruit, getting in your carbs, drinking tons of water, never being dehydrated, but this is what you weigh with, you know, 10% body fat.
1:45:12Natural, healthy, fit. What is that? That should be how everybody fights. >> Yeah, I guess in a perfect world. I like I have zero idea on how you would implement something like that. >> either. >> [laughter] >> Like no answers. And I thought of thought about it. Obviously this has been a question in the MMA world for the longest time.
1:45:27In in all sports with weight divisions really. >> Of course. >> But it's just it's just you also then look at human nature and it's just our tendency to push the envelope. >> Well, especially in a sport that has been predicated on that. >> Yeah, it's it's >> people have been doing that forever. They've been cutting massive amounts of weight forever.
1:45:44>> Yeah, well we I guess maybe because the the sport uh um sprouted here, right? It's just it's taken a lot of the wrestling mentality. >> Exactly. >> And weight cuts and weight divisions and and and and all that into into the sport itself. But I definitely feel like you see more that like that dichotomy of of [snorts] that that kind of scenario of more natural weight classes the higher up you go in the weight divisions.
1:46:09So you see it more in like heavyweights where guys are they're more normal weight class. >> Mhm. >> Or especially in in heavyweight, they're all they're all just big boys. >> Right, right, right. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> And some look like Overeem. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And some look like >> I don't know, Pat Barry.
1:46:26>> He's the best. >> Yeah. O- Overeem, the Overeem days is the the best argument for keeping steroids in sports. >> [laughter] >> It's like, come on. Don't you want to see that again? Like what are we doing? Like the pri- We were [laughter] talking about this last night at the club. The pride days. >> Yeah.
1:46:42>> The pride heavyweight days was the greatest heavyweight lineup in the history of the [ __ ] sport. >> it seem like everyone was a heavyweight? >> There [laughter] was so many heavyweights, man. Well, first of all, they would encourage you to gain weight. >> Yeah. >> Like one of the guys from Eddie's gym, Jason Chambers, fought over there.
1:46:56And when he fought over there, they're like, "You should be 185." And he's like, "I don't I'm not 185." They're like, "You should get on steroids." Like >> [laughter] >> We can make you We can We can make you 185. >> Enson Inouye when he did the podcast, he told me very specifically that in the contract it said in capital letters, "We do not test for steroids."
1:47:22It was like in capital letters like >> [laughter] >> We're all good. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> roll. Yeah, yeah, and you saw those fights. >> Yeah, amazing. >> Amazing. >> Mental and the greatest heavyweight division that has ever been assembled. Mirko Cro Cop in his prime, Fedor in his prime, Nogueira in his prime.
1:47:42>> Wanderlei >> Wanderlei was really shouldn't have been fighting at heavyweight, but he did. He fought Mark Hunt. Remember that fight? >> Oh, Jesus. Mark Hunt was like, "Oh my god, getting hit by Mark Hunt >> Mark Hunt when you're 185 pounder, that is crazy. >> Fedor >> Bro, Fedor. Jesus. >> goodness.
1:47:59>> When he got knocked out by Cro Cop, when he got head kicked, when Wanderlei got head kicked, it's like, "Good lord." >> Yeah, he got folded. It's Cro Cop's head kicks was >> insane. >> Brutal. But what a what a twist of fate the way that he got head kicked. >> By Gonzaga? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like it was such a it was such a thing because that's his thing.
1:48:18>> He got Cro Cop'd. >> You can't you can't Cro Cop Cro Cop. >> I know. And by a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt with nobody expecting him to win that way. [clears throat] >> Yeah, it was it was wild. >> people forget about Gonzaga. Gonzaga was a [ __ ] beast animal. He was a beast. >> That's that's the answer to weight divisions.
1:48:33Absolute. >> Right. But some guys can't do it, you know? TJ Dillashaw can't fight absolute, but he could be a one of the elite of all time at bantamweight, you know? Yeah, here's Mark Hunt and Wanderlei. Bro, Mark Hunt was so big. >> Oh, dude. >> 265 and Wanderlei was fighting 185 at the or 205. >> And it's Mark Hunt.
1:48:53Like he just he's not a fun fight ever. >> No, well, first of all, almost impossible to hurt cuz that guy got head kicked by Cro Cop and just went, "Well, good shot." Got back [laughter] up. >> Good one. Good one. >> Got back up, he was fine. >> Good one. >> And I think he got head kicked with shoes on.
1:49:11It's back [laughter] when they were they were wearing wrestling shoes, you know? And still was fine. Bro, he was a tank. He could eat them. He could eat those shots. >> And he had touch of death. >> Touch of death. And the one of the greatest walk-offs in the history of sport. He He would KO you and just go, "Oh, you're gone."
1:49:25And just turn around and >> Even if you Even if you weren't going, he'd still just walk away. >> [laughter] >> And the referee would stop it cuz you'd be on your back going, "Where is he going?" And the referee be like, "That's it." Like You're You're dead. >> He called the He called the fight? >> Yeah.
1:49:39Yeah. >> Some of those walk-offs, you're like, "I don't know if that's a real KO." >> Yeah. >> Like, maybe that guy could be If he got on top and kept going and just covering up, it might have He might have lasted to the end of the round. >> There were plenty of times I see a walk-off KO, and you're exactly that.
1:49:55Like, they can't You know how sometimes guys come back after getting hit a couple more times? So, they come back and then then you've gassed yourself, and then you're in for another four rounds. >> You know the best example of that is? Anderson Silva, Michael Bisping. >> Yes. >> He hits him with a flying knee.
1:50:08It looks like he's KO'd. It looks like the fight is over, but Herb Dean did not stop the fight. I think it was Herb Dean. And then Anderson hops up on top of the cage and is celebrating. >> Yeah, he's like Yeah, he's ready to hit the showers. >> Bisping comes back in the next round and wins it and wins the decision.
1:50:26>> Yeah. >> WITH ONE [ __ ] EYEBALL. >> [laughter] >> ANIMAL. >> HOW HOW does that mess you up mentally if Cuz I know the the feeling of winning >> Here it is. See, he lost his mouthpiece. Boom, he gets KO'd and Anderson walks off. Like, that's it. And Herb Dean said, "No, it's not over." So, Anderson takes his mouthpiece out.
1:50:48>> Oh, he's doing his thing. >> Yeah, he's doing his thing. He thinks it's over. >> How does that How does How does that affect you? If like you're If you're If you're there because the feeling you get >> So, look at this. He hops up on the cage. He thinks it's over. >> [clears throat] >> He thinks it's over.
1:51:08>> The feeling you get, the high you get when you win a fight is ridiculous. So, if he's if he's feeling that now, well, he obviously is he's sitting on the couch. >> [laughter] >> But, they're telling him and he's saying it's not over. Look, he goes, "Fuck." He realizes it right now, it's not over, which is crazy.
1:51:23Cuz if he just followed up with one or two shots, 100% it would have been over. >> Yeah. But, didn't didn't the bell buzzer go when he landed that knee? >> Maybe. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it was like right there. I think he landed the knee and then the the buzzer went off like right afterwards.
1:51:38>> Mark Hunt's walk-offs were like, "I've had enough of this." >> Yeah, like uppercuts. >> It's like It's like he's called it over. So, >> [laughter] >> it's like this is over. >> Crazy, man. Crazy. Bas Rutten, what a [ __ ] animal. Maybe the like most mentally tough guy that's ever fought in sport. To just to be able to do that with one eye, he fought 11 fights with one eye.
1:51:59>> Yeah. >> And didn't tell anybody, memorized the eye chart. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Cuz he has he has >> Memorized the eye chart so he could do it with his eye [clears throat] closed. >> you have to. But, no. >> Crazy. >> they don't they randomize what kind of >> I don't know. >> Or maybe just like >> Maybe they don't.
1:52:16>> Yeah. >> I mean, I don't know. Do they randomize eye charts? Who What kind of an [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> is going to memorize eye chart? I bet they don't. I bet they don't think anyone's going to try to cheat it. I bet they [laughter] just have an eye chart and you [ __ ] memorize >> Every doctor that I spoke to was like, "Oh, they didn't change it from last time."
1:52:32>> Yeah. Yeah, I guess. >> Right. >> Maybe. I mean, but I think he memorized. But, just the will to do that while you've already lost sight in one of your eyes. >> Yeah. >> And to continue to fight and know potentially you could lose sight in the other eye. You know, that's what I mean. >> It's gone.
1:52:48>> No, like from from a shot. >> Yes. >> Was it an eye poke or a punch? >> Vitor. Vitor. He got head kicked. >> Yes, that'll do it. >> Yeah, he got head kicked and that was the first of many eye surgeries. So, uh I remember he was uh I I'm I met him uh backstage after one of those fights when he had had like one of his first surgeries and he had like oil in his eye.
1:53:09They had injected something in his eye to protect his eyeball. It was crazy. Like his eye looked really strange. I was like, "What's going on with your eye?" And he was explaining to me he had the surgery and to protect his eye, but I think by that time he had already gotten lost a lot of his vision.
1:53:28>> It's according to a comment and I read it, but >> Yeah. >> He said the doctor was out of the office, Bisping went right up to it and memorized the eye chart. >> Yeah, I think that's what he did. >> If it's on if it's on Reddit, you can take that to the >> how about Shara Bullet? Shara Bullet, who's fighting Izzy, he's only got one eye, too.
1:53:44>> Yeah, when when's that is that Doha? >> I think so. Well, he has to fight over there. >> Cuz all cuz >> I don't think he's allowed to fight over here. I think if you fight over here and you're blind in one eye, they won't let you fight. He's beaten like top level guys >> Yeah, yes. >> with one [ __ ] eyeball.
Eye Injuries and Memorization
1:54:00>> Yep. >> He's another guy who got tuned up by Michael Venom Page. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> But Michael Venom Page just looks so annoying to fight cuz it's like obviously I I I think it's a point of pride that I'll fight everyone and anyone. But then people are like, "Well, what about Michael Venom Page?"
1:54:15I'm like, "Yeah, there's this other guys." I'm like, "This I only want to fight guys >> [laughter] >> MVP's another guy that they didn't offer a contract to. Same thing. He won his last fight. >> Oh, no, really? >> Yeah, he he I mean, he only lost once in the UFC. And that was to Ian Garry. >> Yeah. >> And they didn't offer him a contract.
1:54:36He's gone. >> Is he? >> Yeah, he's gone. >> I didn't know know that. >> Same kind of deal. >> Yeah, just point sparring. >> They just decided that they don't want to see that. >> Point fighting. >> You know, but my take is >> do? >> My take is that like it we have to be purists about this. Fighting is fighting.
1:54:51And if someone has a style like that, it's up to someone else to figure out how to beat it. Douglas Lima figured out how to beat it in Bellator. He leg kicked him and KO'd him. And then he beat him in a rematch as well. >> Yes. >> That's That's always been my take, like if if I had to look to dissect him, cuz when I was a middleweight, obviously I'm doing that with most of them.
1:55:07It's It's It's like It's agile guys, agile guys, good footwork, you've got to chop the tree down at the like you you've got to. It's the only way. You've got to slow those feet. >> And most people don't realize when you're watching it, cuz the guys are moving around, they look normal, they're so compromised.
1:55:23Like one or two hard calf kicks, and you're so compromised. >> Calf kicks are the worst. >> They are, aren't they? >> Crazy. >> Like one good calf kick, not Not only do you run the risk of like breaking that What is it, fibia? I don't know what it is. But that bone >> fibula. >> One of them. >> Yeah.
1:55:39>> You are like you Cuz that's like breaking that's real. >> Yeah. >> Like breaking that's real, but it hurts. And it just It just stuffs you up. >> And your your leg doesn't work right. You see that all the time, where guys just their leg doesn't work right right now. They're trying to move around, and it's just not responding correctly.
1:55:55So, that most of their weight is on their other leg, and they're faking it. They're like faking their movement. >> Yeah. And once once that leg's compromised, it opens you up to more leg kicks. >> Yeah. >> Like it It's harder to defend the next calf kick. >> What Protazi did to Jack. >> My god. >> When when Jack went back to the corner, and he yelled at the end of the round, like, "Hey, don't [ __ ] yell."
1:56:15Like, "No, ah. Don't say ah." When he kicks you, don't do that. >> Yeah. >> But it was so much pain, he couldn't help it. >> I was watching it and saying, "Ah." Like >> [laughter] >> that It He was just punishing that leg. >> Punishing him. >> And uh that was always like a hole Jack had to fill >> Mhm.
1:56:34Well, it's very >> boxing style. >> Yes. >> Boxing heavy heavy on the front leg. >> And he just Yeah, it's >> The thing too is like those guys who are really good at switching stances have a giant advantage. If you're one of those guys that must stand orthodox or must stand southpaw, and you get that front leg compromised, and now all of a sudden you're in a bad position, >> Yeah.
1:56:52>> you're 50% of what you really are. >> Yes. >> And guys like T.J. Dillashaw, they're constantly switching. Guys like Cory Sandhagen, constantly switching. So, they're comfortable from any stance. That is such an advantage. >> It It's It's such a huge part of the game. You know who In that first second fight with Izzy, that's he he got me with a a switched switched left left straight down the left straight down the pipe.
1:57:13And the switching put me off. I think Dricus did it a few times as well. He switches pretty well. Um just it it You're exactly right. It is such a powerful maneuver and ability to do cuz for that split second when you see them switch, you have to you have to like take your strategy and then move over to your southpaw strategy.
1:57:34>> Right. Yeah. Instantaneously. And then take it into consideration that all these punches are coming at totally different angles now. >> Yeah, exactly. Exactly. >> And all your attacks come at totally different angles now, too, because you're dealing with a completely different defensive position. >> Exactly.
1:57:46And then then how fast you make that adjustment is obviously where fight IQ and everything else comes into it. It's just It's make or break. And so it and it it seems to be really popular right now. I feel like guys coming into MMA are like really big switch hitters. Like they're starting it cuz it takes a while.
1:58:03It takes years of practice to get comfortable in both sides. So, I can I can I can fight in southpaw, but my defensive game isn't anywhere near as good as my orthodox side. You know, and that's kind of where what you need [laughter] when when you're when you're standing in a different stance. >> Well, that's one of the reasons why Terence Crawford is so great.
1:58:20Is that you you know, his coaches told him, "Hey man, stop [ __ ] around with southpaw. Just stick to one side." He's like, "What? [ __ ] you." >> [laughter] >> I'm going to figure it out. And so he got to a point where he's like he's the best switch hitter since Marvin Hagler. Like he can switch up with And so you don't know what's coming.
1:58:39Like he'll start off a fight southpaw and you're like, "Oh, he's he's fighting southpaw." And then all of a sudden he's orthodox and he stuns you and now he's southpaw again. Now he's orthodox again. He's just switching back and forth and combinations are coming freely from both sides. Like it's such an advantage.
1:58:53>> Well, cuz it's like fighting southpaws and fighting orthodox fighters, they're they're like two different strategy sets. Like a southpaw game and an orthodox game, they're they're very different. Very different shots, very different openings, like very different opportunities. And especially in MMA where wrestling is obviously prevalent.
1:59:13So, having that lead leg not there like if if if you're a if you're an orthodox guy and you're used to shooting on that orthodox side, that lead leg that lead left leg and they switch, it your takedown games are off. And if you're a wrestler that's >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> That's a that's tough. >> Yeah, I would feel like if you if you're a young fighter and you're just learning right now, my god, start switching.
1:59:36There's no reason to not do it. >> I think that that's what they're all doing. I think they have to. There's there's a lot of like orthodox like right-handed kids that are just learning starting in southpaw now. >> Yeah, but then part of me says, but what if you just developed such an elite style with one stance?
1:59:51Like that there's something to that, too. Yes. Just getting so good at checking kicks and so rock solid in one stance. >> Yeah, like Pereira. He doesn't He doesn't switch. >> No, very rarely. >> Yeah. >> Very rarely. If he does, it's just like while he's throwing combinations, he'll switch a little bit.
2:00:07But he's generally that left hook that's coming out of nowhere and that right hand and that that calf kick that's so weird. He's hitting you with like >> He's that big toe. >> Yeah. >> Cuz his big toe is like this big. >> [laughter] >> Like you seen the You seen the size of his feet, man? >> He's like digging the side of his foot into your calf.
2:00:26>> Yeah, and that that protrusion of like where his toe connects to. Oh, man. >> Yeah. >> He's got a >> Harder than a rock. >> He's got like a foot built for that kick. >> like a little hammer. He's like tagging your your calf muscle with it. >> And his posture doesn't break at all cuz he's got long long legs.
2:00:40He's tall, obviously. And he he can just chip away at it like a jab. He doesn't need to he doesn't need to close distance, doesn't need to back away. Body posture, body positioning doesn't change. >> For striking, the tall long stance is such an advantage. >> Yes. >> It's a giant advantage, and you can speak to that because like you've been in situations where you've had a spar and and when you're or fight people that are much taller than you, it's such a weird thing.
2:01:04>> Yeah. >> They're so far away from you and they can hit you and you can't hit them. So, you have to do all these things to try to get in and and get reads out of them. >> I've never lost to someone shorter than me. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, look that up. >> But, [laughter] it's such an advantage, Marvin.
2:01:22>> That's one of [clears throat] the things why I moved up to light heavyweight because in middleweight, I was fighting everyone was taller than me anyway. Like Derita, Izzy, Dricus, Chimaev, they're all taller than me. They're all 6'2, 6'4. So, there wasn't much change. There wasn't much difference.
Height and Light Heavyweight Shift
2:01:36These guys are just bigger, obviously heavier, and slower. >> Well, the freak of the division is Bulgare. Yur C Bulgare's You know, that really tall dude from is a kickboxer? >> Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes, come over. >> How do I Am I pronouncing his name incorrectly? There's so many names in the UFC that I [ __ ] all of them up.
2:01:58I combine them all together, even ones that I know. I just like my my brain doesn't recognize it. >> It's cuz there's also like a ton of the same names in there. Like there's that many Silvas and Oliveiras >> There's a lot of Silvas, a lot of Oliveiras. There's a lot of Nurmagomedovs now. >> Oh, a lot of Nurmagomedovs.
2:02:15[laughter] Oh my goodness. >> Yur C Yur C Bulgare. That's how you say his name, I'm pretty sure. He is the the really tall kickboxer that's Alex Pereira's training partner. >> Yes, yes, yes, yes. >> So, he's like 6'6, and he's fighting at 185. >> Yeah. Just like Pereira was. >> Exactly. Just >> But, taller.
2:02:39>> [ __ ] gigantic. He's so [ __ ] tall for that weight class. And he's elite elite kickboxer. Just so smooth. >> You already How do you Do you think he'll he'll be able to like cuz Pereira is an anomaly >> Mhm. >> for this. Like it what How do you think his transition will be? >> Well, fortunately he's training with Pereira, right?
2:03:02And they both were training with Glover, which I think was a big thing. Big part of it cuz Glover Teixeira for like 6 years. People don't realize this. Before he even got to the UFC for 6 years, Glover Teixeira was the boogeyman. He was the guy that everyone was terrified of, but he couldn't get out of Brazil.
2:03:18So, he couldn't get a visa to come to America for whatever reason. So, he couldn't fight in America. So, he was just training and fighting in Brazil and everybody would talk about when you would talk to the high-level guys like who's the scariest guy that's not in the UFC? It's Glover. Glover's a [ __ ] monster.
Glover Teixeira and Pereira Training
2:03:33>> Yeah. >> By the time he got to the UFC, he was already in his mid-to-late 30s. So, he had already and he won the title in his 40s. >> Yeah. >> Right? So, he he had already passed his prime, probably. You know? And he is so knowledgeable. He obviously elite Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, phenomenal wrestling, and then great striking as well, and knows how to combine the two of them together.
2:03:55And so, with him working with Alex, I think it really sharpened his striking skills. And that's when he won the title. And then on top of that, like when he beat Jan Błachowicz, and then on top of that, him working with Alex really tightened up Alex's takedown defense, really tightened up his grappling game.
2:04:13>> each other's holes. >> Yes. And they're both like super elite at what they do, and both very smart. >> top game was insane. >> Insane. >> you down and he's And he's not like a Liam Pre sort of guy. He'd get you down and he's going to beat you up. >> Yeah, he was mauling people. >> Like that that Anthony Smith fight.
2:04:33>> Oh god, yeah. And again, he was a guy that was Chuck Liddell's training partner way back in the day. >> Yeah, yeah. >> That's why I first heard about him. Old head from the pit days with John Hackleman way back in the day. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, I'd heard about Glover way back then and they were like, "Dude, this guy's a [ __ ] man."
2:04:49And it took forever for him to get to the UFC. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And so, him training with so, Bulgari's training with Pereira and Glover, I think is a giant My I'm saying his name right? >> I think so. >> But it Pull Pull up a Pull up his last fight cuz he um I'm trying to I can't remember the dude's name.
2:05:11He uh Here, yeah, that's it. Mansour Abdul Malakh. And Abdul You receive Bulgari. And uh Abdul Malakh is super talented and massive potential. And Bulgari just tuned him up, man. Just tuned him up. It's just the difference in striking was so different. I mean, he has a victory over Pereira in kickboxing.
2:05:35Pereira stopped him in one of the fights, knocked him out cold, but uh they fought three times, but he's that good. So, he's that elite on his feet. And he's super tall and because of all the training that he's had with Glover like look at this. Take down defense phenomenal. Get back up to his feet quickly.
2:05:52Separates. He's fighting a well. And Malakh is an excellent wrestler. He's really good and really strong and super athletic and and had up until this point been undefeated. Was mauling people inside the UFC. But You You receive just put it to him, man. And it was a bad one, too. Cuz uh Abdul Malakh is so tough that he endured maybe more punishment than he should have and really got badly beaten up in this fight.
2:06:19>> When when you're that tall as well, you can get such power. >> Like all these [ __ ] knees, man. >> You have such big levers. >> Yes. Like Tommy Hearns, you know, that that like you're getting all that leverage behind those shots. The The wide shoulders and the length of the arms and it's all like accelerating to the target and all your weight Look at that left hook.
2:06:38Oh my goodness. So, it's just a matter of time. He just keeps getting touched over and over and over again. And Bulgari just doing it so slick. And it was a It was just a brutal brutal beat down. And then he came back Abdul-Malik came back, I think a little too soon in his next fight and lost again. Just didn't seem like the same guy.
2:07:01He was just getting And survived too many of these, man. Too many of these moments where he was getting just destroyed. >> Yeah. >> And I screaming at him while he's down. Oh, Jesus. >> saying he was out. >> [snorts] >> I think that might have been the end of the round. >> No, it was, but I think he was also saying he was out.
2:07:17>> Yeah, I well, I wasn't calling it. I think he was. He certainly was close to it. And then he got beat up again in the next round. >> kickboxing hook. >> Exactly. >> Like >> It's just when you know, and you can speak to this. When you're fighting a guy who's not on his base, you can get so good. If you're a wrestler and you start striking when you're 28, you get pretty good.
2:07:35But there's stuff that happens in a long prolonged fight where there's series of exchanges, where there's openings that you're going to leave that you're not aware of. And then a striker, a seasoned striker is going to be able to capitalize on it. >> you you throw you throw in fatigue as well. When when you start relying on instincts and things like you start like sleepwalking almost.
2:07:55You know, [laughter] you get that tired. Like Yeah. If you if you you're going to you're going to go back to the roots to what got you to where you are. >> Right. Right. Right. Especially when you're tired. And when a guy is tired, but he's very efficient at striking, you could still throw tight combinations.
2:08:13You still you don't get wild and loose. Which is one of the craziest things about Strickland. Like when he's tired, he gets wild and loose. Just like literally like windmill punches at an elite level. >> And it looks like from all the like from the clips in his his Instagram, he he spars like that, too.
2:08:30Like he just he's just like gassed and throwing bombs. Like >> [laughter] >> Like I And he's always sparring. >> I know, always. That's >> Always sparring. >> That's a main part of his training is sparring. >> like if you have his style, you can spar more than others, right? You're not taking the head trauma that his partners are.
2:08:48>> That's [laughter] true. That's one of the things that he spoke to. He said he spars more than anybody and he gets hit less than anybody. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I yeah, that's there's something >> beneficial. >> I think his sparring partners probably shouldn't be sparring as much. >> [laughter] >> But I mean, look, if you could train with that guy, you you're going to learn some stuff.
2:09:07>> Yeah, yeah. >> That guy that's like battle-tested. He's been in so many [ __ ] wars. He's going through something with the UFC right now where like he says his heart isn't in MMA anymore. He wants to get out. He wants to be able to box Jake Paul. >> Ah, [sighs] I don't know. I don't know. He's like he's the one guy that he's he's he's some wild crap, >> [clears throat] >> but some a lot of it happens.
2:09:27Like he gets away with it. Like like when he said, "I'm going to just going to sit out until I get my title shot." Everyone was like, "Ah, you're an idiot. What are you doing? What are you doing?" Lo and behold, 2 years later, he's fighting for the belt. >> Right. >> [laughter] >> Like straight straight up.
2:09:42I don't know. >> At the end of the day, he's a fan favorite and that's a big factor if you're trying to sell a fight. And the UFC needs to sell fights. And if you've got a world champion, you know, like Khamzat, and you need someone to fight him, who better to sell the damn fight than Sean Strickland?
2:09:57He's going to talk mad amounts of [ __ ] >> Ah, and it's going to be racist. >> [laughter] >> It's going to be racist, and you know that gets people watching. >> Oh, yeah. >> Just cuz of the controversy of it all. >> Well, he knows how to stir up the pot. >> Oh my goodness, doesn't he? >> That's for sure.
2:10:15>> Doesn't he? >> Were you surprised by the Khamzat fight? >> As everyone else was. >> Yeah. >> Like I I don't know what to take from it. Like >> I think Hamzat lost too much weight. That's what I had heard. I had heard he had given up on 185 and he wanted to go up to 205 and challenge for the belt and was training and preparing for that and then they offered him a big money fight with Strickland and he decided to take the fight with Strickland but I don't think they gave him a lot of time.
2:10:42I don't I don't think they gave I think for that guy he gets so [ __ ] big that I think he needs a lot of time to get down to 185. >> That makes more sense to me than Strickland having the perfect anti Chimaev game. >> Well, do you remember when Chimaev missed weight with Nate Diaz by like 8 lb? >> Yeah.
2:11:00Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's that kind of thing. It's like what he what he was doing was kind of bananas. >> Yeah, which is crazy cuz he started at welterweight. >> Mhm. >> Same thing. He went He did that that Fight Island welterweight middleweight >> Uh-huh. >> back-to-back. >> Yeah. >> Which kind of put him on the map and then he disappeared for a little bit.
2:11:18>> Yeah, well, you know, I mean he's a controversial character to put it lightly. >> Yeah, very. >> But but god damn when he's on like when he picked up the leech and he carried him over to Dana White and he and he's just talking [ __ ] while he's mauling him. >> Yeah. Yeah. When you have that level of control and I'm going to jump back to that Dricus fight.
2:11:35It's just nuts. It that to do that to to Dricus, to the champion. >> I know. >> Like it wasn't it was crazy. >> Yeah. >> And even the closest round which was round five, a lot of those positions were given to him taken away from him by the ref anyway. >> Right. >> Like the the the ref was like all right, here you go.
2:11:58Like here's a shot for you, old Dricus. >> Well, it was almost like it was enough. Like enough control. Like come on. We want to see something happen. Get up. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I got I want to get your opinion on What do you What do you think about that pressure hold game? Like cuz I like I if someone walks into your house and holds you down for 15 minutes, you're in trouble, right?
2:12:19Regardless. But But like where does it stop of like where it's not fighting anymore? >> Right. It's just control. >> Yeah, where's that >> It's a good question. >> Yeah. >> I am a purist and I believe if someone could hold you down like Ben Askren used to do in Bellator and just give you no for five rounds, that's it.
2:12:39Like and if you want to get up, figure out a way to get up, but if you can't get up, well, you're definitely losing. >> Yeah. >> You you might not be losing the way Gonzaga beat Cro Cop, but you're losing. You're losing the fight. And I think you have to be a purist. You can't do it entire and they'll well, no, people stop tuning in.
2:12:56No, they won't cuz most people aren't going to fight like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> People might boo. Okay, let them boo. This is what fighting is. >> People going to boo anyway. >> [laughter] >> They're animals. >> Always find something to boo about. >> Well, it's like if you had a fight like that after like did you see the Salt Lake City card?
2:13:13>> Uh when was that? >> That was recently, like a couple weeks ago and it was like >> Allen? >> It was no, the main event was Joshua Van >> Mhm. >> and Pantoja. Was that LA? No, that was LA. Am I wrong? Yeah, I'm wrong. What was the No, the main event was um uh It was the women's flyweight title. Yeah.
2:13:36Natalia Silva and Wang Tong. That was the main event. But all the fights up to that were [ __ ] chaos. It was all first round KOs. >> I think the most knockouts in the card, wasn't it? >> Yes. So Deiveson Figueiredo got knocked out by Peyton Talbott. Ribovic knocked out King Green. Soldic and Khaos Williams was a crazy fight, went to unanimous decision and that was when Roman Kopylov knocked out Ottman Azaitar.
2:14:02So So it was all these crazy chaotic fights and the main event was [ __ ] fantastic. It was a great main event even though a lot of people were talking [ __ ] about it. It was a great fight. A lot of fun. But, if you had a fight like that on that card, so every fight I think it was like 10 first-round stoppages.
Strickland and Fight Strategy
2:14:18If you had a fight where it was just a boring hold them down and give them noogies, the crowd's going to go nuts. They're going to [ __ ] you. >> [laughter] >> Like the fans of this sport are funny, aren't they? >> Oh, yeah. >> They are funny. They are like the best and worst of them. They jump ship so quickly.
2:14:36It's like you have one hard fight. Like and you've been fighting for any amount of time and you're washed. >> It's 11 knockouts. Broke the record. The UFC record for the most knockouts in a single UFC event, surpassing uh Imavov versus Bo Hallio. >> That was That was when That was Johnny Walker's um the heavyweight debut, wasn't it?
2:14:58>> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Oh, you know what's funny is cuz I tuned in and I was watching it and I was like, "Man, I don't like this light heavyweight stuff." Like cuz I remember I just remember Johnny Walker being a light heavyweight. When I first saw him, I was like, "Man, maybe I should go back to middleweight cuz I still thought he was there."
2:15:15And then I saw the heavyweight thing and I was like, "Ah." >> Well, I think he was the point of diminishing returns where he lost so much weight to make light heavyweight. He couldn't take a shot. >> Yeah, not at all. No. He he he he yeah. >> When Jamal Hill knocked him out when he hit him with a straight right to the forehead and he just like >> Yeah.
2:15:32>> Yeah, I just don't think he could take a shot. With that he was so dehydrated. His brain was dehydrated. >> And he did it for so long though. Like it it took so long for him cuz he got hit in that fight, too, by heavyweights. >> Yeah. >> But also his power carried over. >> 100%. Well, he was always powerful.
2:15:46Like real And when you're 205, the difference between a guy who could knock you out at 205 and a guy who could knock you out above that is not much. >> No. >> Not much at all. But those big guys like that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They're the one Once you're above 205, everyone's It's that touch of death almost.
2:16:05Like you That's how I treat training >> Right. now. It's just like just >> So, do you you approach like fighting differently now? Like, are you thinking differently as you're fighting because you can't make any mistakes? >> Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. And it Can I Can I quickly run to the bathroom before I start I'll be right back, folks.
2:16:23He's got to pee. >> [laughter] >> And we're back. Where were Okay, so we're talking about you training differently and fighting differently with bigger guys. And that you have a very distinctly different mindset. Yeah, definitely. Uh it's Well, it all started like when I was at my last fight at middleweight with Derita.
2:16:45I did not enjoy that camp. I did not enjoy that fight. Like, something was missing. I It's like I did The the the flame, the flare, the fire kind of fizzled out a little bit. And at that point I was like, "Man, what am I doing? Got to Something has to change. I'm not enjoying it as I should be." And all this obviously the 12-week camp or whatever you do before before the fight leads itself a lot to that.
2:17:08Like, it it it lends itself Yeah, it it makes the whole thing a drag, you know? But, then the change I was like, "Well, let's go to light heavyweight." People have been saying for years like, "You should go to light heavyweight." Cuz I've always been a heavier set guy. And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to do this."
2:17:25And then But, more than that needed to change. I wanted to enjoy fighting. I wanted to bring the love back for it. So, I just started to be being a bit freer. You know how we were talking about the happy Robin >> Yeah. >> So, I started being a bit freer. I stopped like, whilst fighting is like, I'm hyper-focused on fighting and that is like something That is the objective.
2:17:46That is the goal. It I s- took a little bit off I stepped away a little bit from it so that I could go to my kids' soccer games. You know, instead of running sand hills. Things like that. I started enjoying kind of the moments between fighting, which is uh there's a lot, right? So, just just enjoying that made such a big mental difference, and then I took that into the work room.
2:18:11And in the work room, a big thing was just like, let's not get hit. Let's try not to get hit at all. These guys are big guys. They have every one of them has the touch of death. Let's Let's not Let's [laughter] not play around with that. Let's not roll the dice. >> Right. >> Try to be as evasive and as technical as I can.
2:18:29Cuz that's where I see me having than more like everyone else in the division. I think my skill set is higher holistically across the board. And yeah, that that that took me into that fight, and I like I I felt really comfortable. Obviously, I was fighting a lot of nervous demons and and nerves like coming off two losses, making the move up.
2:18:50Everyone's seen that story. >> Mhm. >> But But yeah, no, it was it was for the was for the better. >> [laughter] >> For the better mentally, like the way you felt. >> Definitely. Definitely. I felt I felt way better. The camp was much more enjoyable. The tricky part is now, the after camp kind of the after the fight period block.
2:19:10Cuz I'm a bigger guy, and I can eat more. I'm going to like Eating is a slippery slope. >> Yeah, [laughter] tell me about it. I'm a glutton. I know what you're talking about, man. >> Everyone can relate. >> Yeah. >> It's just It's It So, I'm trying to work on that still because whereas like when middleweight, I could you know, you I'd get bigger, but you can't go too crazy cuz you know you got to get back down 85 at one point.
2:19:37>> Yeah. >> Whereas at light heavyweight, I can eat everything. >> What are you walking around at before you start your cut? >> Uh I'm 106 kilos now, so it's that 232. >> Not too bad. >> Yeah, it's >> But still >> Yeah. >> 25 lb. >> Yeah, I can like I'm I can train now. It's not But not great. I want to I like I don't want to start a camp at this weight.
2:19:58Put it that way. >> Right. >> It's I think it's too heavy to start a camp. >> And when do you What do you get down to when you start a camp? >> Probably 103. So, that's I don't know. 220 No. >> 225? >> 10 lb less. >> It's 2.2 05 per pound or per kilo per to transfer to pounds. >> So, what is the total?
2:20:19>> 3 would be like 7. It's like 6.6 lb. >> So, what's the total? >> What? >> It'd be like 225-ish. >> Well, yeah. From 232, you're just dropping down 6. >> Yeah. Something like that. >> So, just enough. >> Yeah. >> Do you get close? >> Well, you just just uh lose a little bit of that beer gut. >> [laughter] >> What do you get down to like the week of the fight?
2:20:41>> I I do my cut in the bath at 220. >> Ooh, okay. So, you're still cutting 15. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. Cuz it's like I mentioned, I'm a good sweater. So, I can I can do that in about an hour and a half. >> 15 lb? >> Yeah. In the bath. Just hop in a bath. Hour and a half.
2:21:01>> The bath is the move? >> I've done cuz I've been fighting so long and when I started, like you couldn't just Google how to cut weight. You used to get these wrestling sort of camps. >> Right. >> It's very different. Like they'd be like, "Go for a 15-mi run wrapped up in sweats." Which I did. I That's how I started.
2:21:17That's how everyone cut weight in the beginning, right? You put on your sweats, you go for a run. >> Right. >> But but I did I did sauna. The The problem with the sauna is if I stay too long in there, my esophagus dries out sometimes and like I it like burns if if if it's hot enough. >> How hot are you getting in there?
Bath Weight Cutting Methods
2:21:35>> I'm not sure. Like I want to sweat cuz cuz like when you start sweating, may maybe it was too hot for too long. But um >> I talked to Ethan Ewing about that. And one of the things that he was saying is he he doesn't do it at like a really high temperature. He does it at like 165, I think he was saying.
2:21:50>> Well, I know the science is supports that. You just needed to be hot enough >> Right. >> to sweat. So, but that's kind of our approach. >> not really weaken yourself. That was his take. >> Yeah, exactly. >> But at really high temperatures, you're actually breaking your body down too much and you could sweat as much at a lower temperature, but you're not you're not going to be like tortured.
2:22:10>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's kind of why I do bath because you you you just put it you put a warm, you hop in, lay down. You're resting. You know, it's like training or like running or moving or hitting mitts while I'm dehydrating >> Mhm. >> like when I have to fight the day after >> Right. >> I feel >> You're wearing yourself out.
2:22:28>> like I'm wearing myself out. I don't have the water to like sustain the muscles. You know, it's just it's just and it's like you can just chill out, put some music on. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah, I find it like comfortable almost. >> Well, people are finding all sorts of different ways to figure Do you water load?
2:22:44>> Um >> [clears throat] >> hit and miss with that one. Hit and miss because I don't know if it actually works. >> [laughter] >> Really? >> Yeah, because like I'll I'll do it and it'll come off, but I don't know if the water's just if the weight's coming off just because of the diet change or if because it's actually because of the water.
2:23:01And also like depending on who you speak to, people water load differently. Some guys like restrict it, some guys go backwards, some guys go up to only a certain amount, some guys go as high as they can. It's just it's all kind of different. I think I do it now more as like superstition. >> That's funny.
2:23:23Just cuz you think you're supposed to. >> Yeah, and cuz like it'd be worse if it doesn't if if it did work >> [laughter] >> and then I get in the bath and I have to cut like 20 lb. >> Right. >> Yeah. Have you ever done it with like one of those elite weight cutting coaches? Like there's a few of those guys that people bring in that are like real experts in monitoring the exact amount of sodium you take and the exact amount of water you drink at this day and the amount that you drink at that
2:23:52day and they get you perfectly to that threshold. >> No, no, I haven't. But I got to ask you, like how much especially in like if we look at the grassroots of fighting, like we are just two men with sticks and rocks, right? We're just like cavemen. Like how how much sometimes does science dilute what it is we're doing?
2:24:13We're just oonga boonga-ing. >> [laughter] >> We are. Like >> Sort of. >> Yeah. >> But also super skillful. >> Yeah. >> There's like there's both things that are happening simultaneously. It's like >> Yes. >> skill and technique, but it's also [ __ ] raw. >> Yes. >> That's in there, too. >> And that'll get you so far.
2:24:34>> Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] Having that dog. >> Yeah. >> Like that guy that'll go further than you will. >> Right. >> And a lot Most most fighters have it. But I wonder sometimes if the science if if sometimes we get too caught up in science cuz you see that a lot with like today's like younger guys coming in.
2:24:51Like their parents are getting them into it because they've been watching UFC their whole life. So, the kid's starting mixed martial arts with like an elite program. And and they're like doing the best things, eating the best foods, like and they get too technical when when when a lot of the guys that are champions and stuff like that they're they're just punching on in garages.
2:25:13>> Right. >> [laughter] >> Or street corner. >> Yeah. >> Or they're just street cornering. Like that's not the most scientific approach just to constantly spar. And [laughter] and talk [ __ ] to people while you're sparring them. >> To to to to to to be fair, like he's he's able to constantly spar cuz he's beating people up.
2:25:29>> [laughter] >> Right. >> Like >> But he's beating good people up. >> Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure it'd be different if he was like getting brain damage every time he stepped in there. >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, well, he's got a very elusive style. It's it's a weird style. >> isn't it? >> Stand straight up, hard to take down, cheap kicks to the body, and a lot of it is predicated on that left that right leg being all [ __ ] up.
2:25:49You know, he blew his leg apart in a motorcycle accident. Like he's missing a big piece of his quad. >> His story is actually like really cool. Like his comeback story. >> It's kind of crazy. Yeah. He's a very unusual guy and very underestimated in terms of his intelligence cuz he says so many wild things.
2:26:07>> Yeah. >> But he fights intelligently. And it's it's a a difficult style. Like you see when he fought Fluffy Hernandez? Like Hernandez was on a tear up until that fight. And And Strickland just beat the brakes off of him. >> Easily. >> Yeah. >> Like it wasn't >> Beat the brakes off of >> close. It wasn't close.
2:26:22And then the fans are the fans are brutal because like they just As soon as that happened, everyone was like, "Fraud checked. Fraud checked." >> That's the worst. >> Aw, they're the worst. >> That fraud check thing, [ __ ] you. >> Yeah, man. >> There's so many casuals and not just casuals but cruel people.
2:26:36Like they say cruel things for engagement. And they think they're being intelligent when they're saying it. Like [ __ ] off, man. You're a [ __ ] >> and fighting is like it is the most primal vulnerable position two men can be in. >> Yes. >> You know what I mean? Like these are two guys out there putting their souls on the line with the consequence of getting knocked out in front of their friends and friends and family and the world.
2:27:01>> Yeah. >> It's like no one takes that risk except these guys for your entertainment. >> Right. [laughter] >> And And then these guys just stab us. >> Yeah. >> It's brutal. >> And it's usually the loudest voices are the biggest [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> The biggest [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you know, it's like I heard a lot of that from Peyton Talbott after after he lost to Honey Barcelos.
2:27:22They were saying fraud check, fraud check. I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no." He found an area of his game that he needs to improve. And then look what happened when he came back. >> Then he did. >> And he figured it out. He [laughter] figured it out, [ __ ] And he came back and [ __ ] up Henry Cejudo. Killing people.
2:27:38>> He's killing people. He's so good. >> He's so good. I really hope that fight with him and Sugar Sean O'Malley takes place. I really hope that fight takes place cuz I think >> a good fight. >> That is a gigantic fight and such a good fight on paper. You know? >> Do you reckon Payton wrestles? Cuz he can wrestle.
2:27:57>> He can wrestle. I mean, he he certainly did with Henry Cejudo. It's possible. I mean, that's a an area of of his game that he just jumped way up after the Rani Barcelos fight. >> Oh my god. He just Yeah, like he he took the wrestling to Cejudo. >> Yeah, it's crazy. When he took Cejudo down, I was like, this is madness.
2:28:14Like this kid is special. >> He's cheeky. >> He's very special. He's very very unique in his his approach to this. >> And you can tell he's feeling himself right now. >> Mhm. >> Like he's flowing. He's in that flow state right now. >> Yeah, man. And he loves it. He loves competing. He loves fighting.
2:28:29He really do. Really really does. I mean, there's a lot of great fights for him and I understand Sean's position. If I was Sean, I would not take that fight right now either because Petr Yan and Rob Font will be going to fight this weekend. And if Petr Yan wins again, the big fight is him and Sean O'Malley because the last fight that he lost was to Sean O'Malley.
2:28:50>> So that is an amazing Sean would be close. >> It was very close. Very and also a three-rounder. Right? So imagine if that fight goes five, who knows what happens, right? It gets crazy. I think that >> where the money is, too. >> The money's there. What Also, it's like that's the fight you want. Like yeah, Payton Talbott would be a good fight for the fans, but that's not the right fight to take right now.
2:29:11>> Yeah. >> It's great for Payton. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean, but there's a lot of great fights for Payton. There's so many good names. >> just Yeah, he's right up there. He's just dismantling people, too. >> There's so many good fights in that division. There's so many good fights in that division. That division is just [ __ ] chalk full of talent.
2:29:28You know, 135 right now was a like I think >> Yeah, it's a melting pot, isn't it? The biggest divisions right now are probably like 50s and 55s insane. 55 is just [ __ ] insane. >> [laughter] >> There's so much talent at 55. >> It's fun right now. >> Yeah, it's fun. 70s [ __ ] insane. You know, it's like there's 45 is insane.
2:29:49And 55 is all laying on whether or not Justin decides to retire or whether what he What does he do? Who does he fight? >> Who Who do you think he fights? >> I think Arman's the fight. >> Yeah. >> The big fight is Arman, especially after what Arman did to Hoofi. That's the big fight. And also it's like that's the most compelling fight cuz Arman looks like indestructible.
2:30:07He He looks like the guy. >> Yeah. And And he's like that Hoofi really made a statement. Really cemented the argument. And he arguably he's already supposed to fight for the title. >> Right. If it wasn't for that one thing where he hurt his back the day before he's fighting Islam, it would've already happened.
2:30:26And look, he fought Islam in his first fight ever in his UFC debut. Right. And that close. I mean, razor close decision loss to to Islam. >> One of the best ever. >> Yeah, so he's really [ __ ] good and that's the fight. However, if I was if I was Justin and I'm looking at the landscape and I'm like, well, who do I fight?
2:30:50I mean, you could fight if Oliveira wins in his next fight and Oliveira retains the BMF title and then Justin fights him for the in a rematch for the BMF title and for the lightweight title together, I could see that fight too, but it seems like you're denying Arman what he's deserved. >> Yes. Yes. >> been fighting.
2:31:13Like And fighting Hoofi, especially after the the per- performances Hoofi's been putting on lately. >> Especially the one at the White House against Chandler. That was an execution. >> Yeah. >> That was That one was crazy. >> that coming, but >> Saw it coming. >> I think everyone [laughter] saw it coming.
2:31:26mean >> I was, you know, saying Chandler, I really hope he figures something out here. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, it's Chandler's style is so difficult to handle. That long, tall, elite striker at this stage of his life. I mean, Chandler's 40. >> Yeah, exactly. >> At this stage of his life. >> me wonder, it's like Look at Look at Gaethje.
2:31:43Look at Chandler. Look at like most of the guys in my division. I think I'm one of the younger ones. >> [laughter] >> Right. >> You know, like Why do you The age of of of these athletes are just going up. >> Well, I think with proper training and with all the different sports science modalities today, like particularly people that using hyperbaric chambers, red light therapy, saunas, cold plunges, massage, all these different training methods that they're doing to strengthen all
2:32:11their tissues and make sure they don't get injured, increasing their cardio scientifically, and all the nutrition. Everybody's got everything dialed in. You can extend your lifespan a lot further than you could a few years back. >> Well, I I hold a great belief in longevity. Like that's why me and my wife actually just created an app that like really focuses on sports science, longevity, >> What's it called?
Ascend Fitness App
2:32:35>> personal training, Ascend Fitness by Rob. >> Ascend Fitness by Rob. All right. >> It's something >> Like so what's There it is. >> Yeah, there it is. >> Handsome bastard. >> [laughter] >> Um so what is What's going on in this? What's in the app? >> It's It's Honestly, it's programs just like built around making like what got me to be able to perform for so long.
2:32:57Cuz you know how rare it is to be able to fight at this level for the length of time. >> Right. >> Like that That's always the hardest thing is the longevity. The turnover rate in the UFC is like super fast. So like performance, doing these little things, performance training, conditioning to make life better.
2:33:12We just want to make life better. But what we do differently, and this is kind of an avenue that I started playing with the idea when I wasn't going on a title run >> [laughter] >> before I had my success in my last fight. It's like I want to move into like health, fitness with my wife. I always want to do with my wife cuz she's the one that got me into everything.
2:33:32So, I wanted to to be able to give back, create a community community get guys on board, start working up like we have monthly Q&A's where people can talk to me like I want to get to know people. I want to be able to tell them like give me questions. We have a bunch of coaches on board that can give like form feedback straight away but also just to talk to.
2:33:51I think that's so important especially with training like you need that human element of what's going on, how you're feeling, where's your head at because that as we've spoke earlier it's like a happy [laughter] Rob is dangerous Rob. That mental that mental ability it's like when you're you know when you're feeling on top of the world and you can do anything like we try and make sure you have that every day just by check-ins, by talking and things like that.
2:34:17I'm going to sneeze. >> [laughter] >> I'm going to hope I don't blow my back out. You got to flex that >> Cuz that [ __ ] thing hurts and I'm like all right I'm I'm okay. >> Flex that flex that core. >> So, have you ever worked with a sports psychologist? >> Uh I've yeah through throughout my career I have.
2:34:34I I spoke to I spoke to one but uh >> What do they do for you? >> It depends. I I think I think guys and this is just my take okay cuz there's everyone has their own take on on on everything. I think guys sometimes just need to talk. Like just [ __ ] talk you know like that I think that's why pub culture was so important for for men you know going through the years because they they they love they got a little bit they just start [ __ ] talking.
2:35:04It's like what we're doing now. This is great. We can just start we're just talking and and in that I'm venting I'm letting out stresses. I'm saying things that make me vulnerable. I'm saying things that like I just want another opinion on because like sometimes you you just need to say something and then you need the other guy to be like, "Nah, you're a pussy."
2:35:24>> [laughter] >> You know what I mean? And sometimes that gets you going. You're like, "You know what? Yes." Or he goes, "Nah, it'll be all right." And you know, you you're you're just just talking. I think talking is so important. >> Right. So like it helps you come to grips with whatever the thing is bouncing around inside your head by yourself.
2:35:39>> Yeah, because as men as [laughter] as fighters, some of our thoughts aren't like talk to your wife thoughts. >> [laughter] >> You know what I mean? Like Like to all the women out there. It's it's just what it is. You know what I'm saying? Like we get it. You get it. Like our thoughts are sometimes stupid.
2:35:59But we we just need a place to put them. >> Right. And and put them with another man who's going to understand like, "Dude, I get it." >> Yeah. >> Someone's going to say, "I get it." >> I think so. And then and obviously that's why like support circles and friends and family are super important. >> Yeah.
Mental Health and Brotherhood
2:36:15>> Having those guys you can turn to and just and just just talk to, man. You know? >> Yeah, well that's what what when when guys run a foul in their gym and have to leave the gym, that's always like a giant problem because that the people that you train with on a daily basis, you spar with, you you grind with, those are like brothers.
2:36:37>> Yep. >> And people who have gone to competition with people that they've trained with constantly like you have so much invested in them. Like you you it hurt it's sometimes I've seen this with training partners where their friends fighting makes them more nervous than when they're fighting. >> Oh, yeah.
2:36:53It's >> Cuz the love that they have for these guys >> go to any of my teammates' fights. Like it kills me. Like I it just it just kills me. But you're you're 100% right. Like guys you've bled and sweat with in the in the gym for any amount of time, like you you build a connection there. Like even if you don't like him.
2:37:10Like there's heaps of guys in my gym that like I don't bond with. Like I want to go I'm not going to go to him and be like "Hey, let's go grab some food." >> But you still root for him. >> Uh if he if he calls me up and says "I need help." I'm getting jump I'm there. I'm in the car already. Like we're that close.
2:37:24>> Right. >> Or or or if like if he's like yeah, it's just you build that sort of bond. Like it's a brotherhood. >> Yes. >> You know, and >> So when you see a guy like leave a gym, it's like >> I've never had Yeah, that's got to be huge. I've never had that happen. >> I don't know what happened with Izzy.
2:37:40You know, I don't know what's going on, but I know he left City Kickboxing and that was a stunner for me. I was like I can't believe >> Yeah. >> Cuz Eugene Bareman has been a a staple part of his career. >> Yeah. >> And he's an amazing coach. Like he's so good. And he's such a mastermind. He's one of the few real legitimate masterminds in the sport.
2:37:56So when I saw that I was like oh no. Like that's a bad place to be. Like psychologically. >> Yes. >> You leave the family. >> Yeah. That's And and and I'm for all I know, I think he's still living in New Zealand, too. And that was that was huge for me because I I had just trained [laughter] with him there.
2:38:16Like I was just training with him there. And then you know, I found that out. And obviously I'm still going to go to CKB and stuff cuz I have good relationship with him and I did some really good work with him. And for me everywhere everywhere is so far from Australia. >> Right. >> Australia is in the ass end of nowhere.
2:38:33I realized it come flying here. It was like to to get to Austin it was like 17 and a half hours of flight time. >> Oh my god. >> Like We're what we're so far. >> Well, that's why people want to build bunkers over there. >> [laughter] >> Exactly. That's like the the selling point. >> All those [ __ ] billionaire dudes who are like worried about the end of the world, they all get a bunker in New Zealand [laughter] or Australia.
2:38:56>> Well, that's that's why I like New Zealand cuz obviously like the Kiwis guys, they're big boys. >> Yes. >> got some good prospect like Navajo Sterling right now. Carlos Ulberg obviously. and Pedro like these big boys that I can work with. But for me, it's only like 3 hours two 3-hour flight. That's great.
2:39:17>> [laughter] >> That's great. Like yeah, I can't ask for more. >> Yeah, you guys live in a crazy country. It's so big and there's so few people in it. So it's so everything's so far away. >> Yeah, but but a lot of like the non I don't know. A lot of it's desert. >> I know, but you have the population of Los Angeles in a country the size of the United States.
2:39:36>> Don't say like that. Don't [laughter] say like that. You guys always like you guys always come over here like oh, that's cute. >> No, [laughter] listen, I love Australia. I love it there. I love the people. They're very friendly. It's a fun culture. I really do love Australia. But I mean the the just the actual geography of Australia is crazy and it's filled with things that want to kill you.
Australia and Comedy Culture
2:39:59>> Yes, like >> But you guys got to start killing those crocodiles. >> No, but you guys bring back killing crocodiles. [laughter] Make that fun again. Make that fun. Why are you guys letting the crocodiles live? That's insane. They're protected and they're eating people. >> They're not eating people.
2:40:13>> They are eating people. >> Oh, mate, if you were stupid enough to if you were stupid enough if you were stupid enough to go for a swim in the river that you clearly can't see the bottom of. >> Listen, >> [laughter] >> this is how I feel. If I live in a place and I'm a human, anything else that lives in the place that wants to kill me should be dead.
2:40:33>> [laughter] >> Dead. [ __ ] you. This is my ground. I'm the person I'm I'm the one with the brain, the opposable thumbs, and I have the guns. [ __ ] off. If you want to eat my kids, I kill all of you. There's none of you left. I put a few of you in a zoo and we can stare at you from behind the glass.
2:40:50[ __ ] you forever. >> It's funny. Alligators seem cute by comparison to crocs. >> They do. >> Like alligators kind of like dopey crocs. >> Have you ever seen what happens when they get the two of them together? >> [laughter] >> They to them. So they there's this uh place in Florida where they have alligators and crocodiles all intermingling and Nile crocodiles.
2:41:06And so, when they when they feed them, the crocodiles run over the top of the alligators' heads [laughter] to get the food. They're like, "Fuck you. Give me that food, bitch." >> It's like, "You're just a pretend croc anyway." >> [laughter] >> It's like the difference between a [ __ ] golden retriever and a pitbull.
2:41:25>> Well, the the thing that gets me like brown snakes are annoying. They like I hate those cuz I got kids and they >> Well, cuz they kill you. >> Yeah, they're they're very poisonous. >> Only a person in Australia would say they're annoying. >> Well, even cuz well, they don't they don't hang out with you.
2:41:38It's not like they're trying to invade. They just I understand. You just don't go into any hot bushes. >> But, the So, you have to go into a hot bush. >> webs as well, they're very venomous, but just don't put your hands in any wet holes. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Always good advice anyway. >> Yeah, good advice.
2:41:59Keep your out of trouble, trust me, guys. >> [laughter] >> It's just you have so many different bugs and spiders. Like my friend Adam Green Tree, he lives over there. He just got bit 2 months ago by some [ __ ] spider when he was camping and it's like lethal. He almost died. >> No. >> Yes. >> Really?
2:42:15>> Yeah, I forget what it's called. Some green something or another. He told me and apparently he it didn't even get him. What happened was as he slapped it, it was crawling on him and as he slapped it, >> [laughter] >> it's it's stinger went into him a little bit, but not enough to kill him cuz otherwise it would have been lethal.
2:42:31>> No, really? >> Yeah. >> You know what? And I thought of this just now. Maybe the reason why we let them all live is to keep people out. >> It's not a bad idea. >> That's a great idea. >> Right. You keep your population low. It's like less problems. >> Cuz like a lot of Americans are like, "Australia's everything's trying to kill you.
2:42:47I'm never going to Australia." It's like >> It's not that bad. Like I have I have friends that go over there and hunt all the time. But, it's uh it is a great country in terms of like the the spirit of the people. They're fun people. Generally speaking, Australians are fun. It's a great place to do comedy.
2:43:02It's like they have a good time. >> Yeah. >> It's like it's a great drinking culture. It's a great laughing culture. It's a lot of fun. >> The drinking culture is a slippery slope. >> [laughter] >> Because we we probably like it a bit too much. >> Yeah, as it is everywhere where it's fun. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Whether it's [ __ ] Ireland or anywhere.
2:43:22>> The the the vibe at the the club last night the was just amazing. The energy was so good. It's my first time and that has sparked my ambition to go to ones in in Sydney and and stuff. >> a great comic that lived in Austin for a while and he moved to Australia, James McCann. He's one of my favorites.
2:43:40He's one of the best up and coming comics in the world right now and [ __ ] hilarious Australian dude and he went back. He He just just had a new baby and she wanted to like get help with the family and so they went back to Australia, but he's planning on coming back to America again. But if he's performing in Australia, I'll send you to him.
2:44:00>> Yeah. >> Cuz he's [ __ ] great. He's so funny. >> Yeah. I've got >> There he is. McCann. Performing in November. Oh, there he is. So, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane. >> Yeah. >> Uh, in November. Yeah, go see that dude. >> the itch now. >> [ __ ] brilliant. >> Yeah. I've got the itch. That was That was a great time.
2:44:19>> It's fun, right? It's fun. >> It was great. It was great. It was just like relaxed. Everyone was laughing. Like laughter is special. >> Yeah. >> It's special. It gives you a special sort of energy. I'm very I'm very big on energy of people and stuff like that. So, when you get you you put them all in one place and it's just yeah.
2:44:37>> With one goal, to have a good time. >> Exactly. Yeah. And that's it's one of the few places in the world, really, where everyone comes with like no baggage. >> Right. >> Like no one comes with any sort of expectation of everyone has the same goal, same objective. >> Yeah, good intentions. Go there to have a good time.
2:44:53And that sort of burned into the spirit of the building by this point. You know, we've been open for a few years. It's like just I I have a I real really believe that. Like The Comedy Store in LA is a great example of that. When you go there, it's like burned into the walls of the building, the laughter, all the years of fun, excitement.
2:45:11>> The like the energy seeped into the the concrete. Yeah, and you can you can feel it. You can feel it's like I got got a culture. It's like a heaviness to it when you walk through it. >> Mhm. >> It was cool. It was cool. Can't thank you enough. >> That was awesome, brother. I'm glad you had a good time, and I'm glad we did this.
2:45:24You know, I've I've been a fan of yours for a long time, and I I've always loved hearing you talk in interviews. I'm like, "That'd be a fun guy to have on the podcast." [laughter] >> Yeah, yeah. And you are. You're great, man. >> This has been so much fun. So much fun. >> You should probably do your own podcast.
2:45:37You'd be great at it. >> Uh yeah. I I do have one on YouTube. >> Oh, you do? >> Yeah, and I'm okay. We We We just talk about like fights and and like video games. >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah, it's like just >> Like Mighty Mouse? >> Yeah, yeah, well, yes. Yes, to a degree. >> Nice. Have you done his podcast?
2:45:54>> I have, plenty of times. He's a great guy to talk to. >> I [ __ ] love that dude. >> Yeah, another energy. Another piece of energy. Like he just he his vibes when you're talking to him, cuz he You know what it is? And it's not rocket science. You just have to be invested in the person you're talking to.
2:46:06>> Yes. >> That's it. >> Yeah, for real. You have to really be there. >> Yeah, that's it. And and he's great at that. You're obviously the maestro of it. Like talking with you is just so easy. Hours just fly by. It's so much [laughter] fun. >> I'm glad you had fun, man. What's vice back >> For me, too.
2:46:21>> You know, it's just the the key is only talk to people you actually want to talk to. >> [laughter] >> That way you never have to fake it. >> Yes, yes, yes, yes. >> But yeah, Mighty Mouse is awesome at that. And to me, he's like one of the greatest examples ever of mixed martial arts excellence. Like watching him perform when he was at his best, he was just a master.
2:46:38>> Yes. >> Just a master. One of the all-time. >> that flying armbar. >> Oh, my god. >> Like >> To chain that? Suplex into an armbar. >> Like >> In a fight. >> Yeah, it's just Yeah, he does things that that it's like you're playing the game. >> Yeah, dude. >> what I mean? It's >> And his speed, there's something about the speed of flyweights, too.
2:46:56One time I grabbed him at a UFC just to say hi, just [ __ ] around. I grabbed him from behind and he turned around and he went He hit me with two knees to the body. It didn't hurt me, just touched me. But they were so fast, my brain didn't process it. MY BRAIN WAS LIKE, "WHAT? WHAT DID YOU JUST HOW DID YOU DO WHAT THE [ __ ] JUST HAPPENED?"
2:47:15Cuz it's one thing to watch it play out, but it's another thing when those knees just come at your body like that and you realize like, "That's the speed that they're competing at." >> Yeah. >> Like when you watch Joshua Van versus Pantoja, the chaos. >> What a fight. What a fight. >> How good is Joshua Van?
Flyweight Speed and Closing
2:47:30>> Oh, yeah. And then like and I'm I'm so happy he like silenced everyone about [clears throat] that Pantoja fight. >> He kind of did with the Tyra fight. Cuz the Tyra fight was so good. I know. >> But dude, >> Joshua is another level, man. >> He is. And he's just evolving every fight. That's just like Talbot.
2:47:48It's like I think that's that's this new generation. Their level their ability to adapt and grow so fast between fights. >> Yep. >> Yeah, it's just it's >> And as a champion, I think he's even more confident than ever. You know, it's just Oh my god, it's such an exciting time for the sport, man. >> [laughter] >> That that younger generation is why I'm developing an app.
2:48:11That's why I brought out a fitness app. >> [laughter] >> Well, listen, man. Thank you for being here. Good luck with the app. Good luck with everything in your future. It's been a pleasure. >> Ah, thank you so much for having me. This is great. >> Uh if anybody wants to wants to get a hold of you on Instagram, what is your handle?
2:48:25What is it? >> Robert Whittaker MMA. >> Okay. And Twitter, do you use that? >> Yes, yes, yes. It's all the all the same all the same handle. >> Website? >> The website is Ascent Fitness by Rob ascentfitness.com. >> byrob.com >> 50% off first month. >> All right, thanks, brother. >> Thank you. Bye, everybody.
2:48:46>> [music]
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